Tesla Energy quote today and a question about net metering with SCE

[Az_Rael]

Had Tesla Energy out for a quote today on a solar system with powerwalls. We are just starting the process to get solar bids, and I was a bit disappointed their initial offer didn't seem very competitive.

Issue number one was they called me, I didn't call them. Apparently when you buy a Tesla car, you get put on the "lead" list for TE, but whatever, we are actually in the market for solar right now with TWO Model S's so I scheduled the visit.

Quote was for 4.27/watt on a 13kWh system (Yes, that is a huge system, I know). This is for the new Panasonic panels and a power optimizer inverter. That price does not include any powerwalls - we had them quote 4 for $25,500 with install.

I like the Powerwall price - at least one other company was throwing around numbers of $11K for 1 with install, but that solar price is a killer. I am seeing initial quotes from other companies in the 3.20/watt price for Panasonic panels, so that is a significantly different price. I care about aesthetics, but maybe I don't care THAT much as the panels will be on the back of my house.



Also - the Tesla rep (he said he was from the Tesla side vs SolarCity) said that net metering with SCE was done on a 1kWh to 1kWh basis. So if I generate 1kWh during Peak hours, I only get to take credit for 1kWh at night during Super Off-peak hours. I wanted to poll the other SCE customers here with solar and see if that is correct. It matters how I size my system if that is the case - I could get away with a smaller system if I got credited for the VALUE of that Peak 1kWh ($.45) that I could then spend at night on more than 1kWh at $.13. Any insights?

 

[AEdennis]

...
Also - the Tesla rep (he said he was from the Tesla side vs SolarCity) said that net metering with SCE was done on a 1kWh to 1kWh basis. So if I generate 1kWh during Peak hours, I only get to take credit for 1kWh at night during Super Off-peak hours. I wanted to poll the other SCE customers here with solar and see if that is correct. It matters how I size my system if that is the case - I could get away with a smaller system if I got credited for the VALUE of that Peak 1kWh ($.45) that I could then spend at night on more than 1kWh at $.13. Any insights?

I have all those scenarios and this part is incorrect in my TOU-A rate (whole house TOU). He is correct if you overproduce and expect a check back, it's at the wholesale rate only.

 

[ke6jph]

I also have Solar City, but pay for what I use under contract at 14.5 cents/kW. According to the PUC you are only allowed to size your system for net metering at ~90% of your usage on an annual basis.....Solar City (Tesla Energy) used my previous year energy usage on the application and then we switched to all led lights and were also signed up for the a/c cycling discount. I do not have an electric car yet.....we have received two refund checks at the end of our annual period. Yes the credit is at the wholesale rate, but you can manage your usage and "beat the system" very easy.

 

[AEdennis]

I also have Solar City, but pay for what I use under contract at 14.5 cents/kW. According to the PUC you are only allowed to size your system for net metering at ~90% of your usage on an annual basis.....Solar City (Tesla Energy) used my previous year energy usage on the application and then we switched to all led lights and were also signed up for the a/c cycling discount. I do not have an electric car yet.....we have received two refund checks at the end of our annual period. Yes the credit is at the wholesale rate, but you can manage your usage and "beat the system" very easy.

Key is what your baseline is... We were driving ONE BMW ActiveE with 28 kWh capacity (approx, or was it 33, I don't remember exactly)... vs. two Teslas...

 

[ke6jph]

Key is what your baseline is... We were driving ONE BMW ActiveE with 28 kWh capacity (approx, or was it 33, I don't remember exactly)... vs. two Teslas...

Guess I should have specified previous 12 month period is your baseline.....

 

[AEdennis]

Guess I should have specified previous 12 month period is your baseline.....

Exactly, I installed with one EV's use for a couple of months... got approval based on projections of use... but even my projections were understated, plus I only have so much roof space... ended up with a 6.58kW system with 28 panels

 

[Az_Rael]

I have all those scenarios and this part is incorrect in my TOU-A rate (whole house TOU). He is correct if you overproduce and expect a check back, it's at the wholesale rate only.

OK, so on a daily basis, if I generate 1kWh back to the grid at the peak rate of .45/kWh, I then get to use that $.45 credit on say, 3 kWh at night at the .13/kWh rate?

I understand that at the end of the year, for my even up bill they only cut me a check for the wholesale rate.

 

[AEdennis]

OK, so on a daily basis, if I generate 1kWh back to the grid at the peak rate of .45/kWh, I then get to use that $.45 credit on say, 3 kWh at night at the .13/kWh rate?

I understand that at the end of the year, for my even up bill they only cut me a check for the wholesale rate.

Yes. That's net metering.

Additionally, the batteries come into play in that you want it to charge during off-peak solar and not when you're making more during peak. In SCE off-peak goes form 8-2p, peak is 2-8p, off-peak again from 8-10p, then super off-peak from 10p-8a.

So, have to manage the charge levels.

 

[Petra]

OK, so on a daily basis, if I generate 1kWh back to the grid at the peak rate of .45/kWh, I then get to use that $.45 credit on say, 3 kWh at night at the .13/kWh rate?

I understand that at the end of the year, for my even up bill they only cut me a check for the wholesale rate.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it works out here with SCE otherwise there's no way the math would have worked out for my previous billing year (used about 1100kWh more than I produced, but only paid SCE a net of $2 for the year, including monthly service charges). I don't think anything has changed since I signed my NEM agreement with SCE back in 2013...

 

[AEdennis]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it works out here with SCE otherwise there's no way the math would have worked out for my previous billing year (used about 1100kWh more than I produced, but only paid SCE a net of $2 for the year, including monthly service charges). I don't think anything has changed since I signed my NEM agreement with SCE back in 2013...

If you're on TOU, SCE changed schedule of peak/off-peak/super off-peak. Otherwise same for 2013 sign ups. (I was 2012)

 

[Az_Rael]

OK, so it sounds like if I went with the Tesla Energy sizing recommendation, I would probably be buying more panels than I actually need to achieve a zero(ish) bill. Maybe we only actually need an 11kW system vs 13kW or something like that.

Off to excel for some more calculations then!

 

[AEdennis]

OK, so it sounds like if I went with the Tesla Energy sizing recommendation, I would probably be buying more panels than I actually need to achieve a zero(ish) bill. Maybe we only actually need an 11kW system vs 13kW or something like that.

Off to excel for some more calculations then!

If you get batteries today, you're preparing for the end of Net Metering.

If other jurisdictions are any indication, NEM will be taken away by the utilities and PUCs from customers at some point and then you're overproducing and NOT getting a benefit from your production.

The question is how many years of Net metering will you get now.

Just make a note that those of us that answered your NEM question installed services a few years ago and MAY BE grandfathered into other schema. In some states they do a graduated level of service, so, just because we explain OUR service in this way, you, as a new entrant, may be subject to differing rules. (aka YMMV).

 

[Petra]

If you're on TOU, SCE changed schedule of peak/off-peak/super off-peak. Otherwise same for 2013 sign ups. (I was 2012)

Yeah, I posted a bunch in the original 'OMG everything is changing' thread when SCE was killing off TOU-D-TEV and moving people to TOU-D-A, TOU-D-B, etc.

 

[AEdennis]

Yeah, I posted a bunch in the original 'OMG everything is changing' thread when SCE was killing off TOU-D-TEV and moving people to TOU-D-A, TOU-D-B, etc.

Exactly. New TOU program starts the push for battery storage.

 

[Az_Rael]

If you get batteries today, you're preparing for the end of Net Metering.

If other jurisdictions are any indication, NEM will be taken away by the utilities and PUCs from customers at some point and then you're overproducing and NOT getting a benefit from your production.

The question is how many years of Net metering will you get now.

Just make a note that those of us that answered your NEM question installed services a few years ago and MAY BE grandfathered into other schema. In some states they do a graduated level of service, so, just because we explain OUR service in this way, you, as a new entrant, may be subject to differing rules. (aka YMMV).

Understood. I will be going on the NEM 2.0 structure with TOU-D-A under SCE. At the current rates, a ~11 kW system nets me a zero bill, although still nets a positive kWh use for the year (all my usage is not offset). The risk I take there is that the rate structures change to no longer getting the retail rate credit. But since the smaller system is about $10K less it might be worth that risk.

If netmetering goes away entirely (and we are not grandfathered in like the NEM 1.0 customers are), I am basically screwed as far as I can figure. The majority of my household use is during super off-peak charging the two cars.

We priced the PW install mostly for battery backup purposes. I don't know if we will actually buy them now vs later when they are (hopefully) cheaper. There is also the 10 year warranty to consider. It might be best to wait until I actually NEED them if net metering goes away before adding them to my system.

 

[McRat]

Financially, never produce power you can buy cheaper from the utility.

Only produce expensive power.

It is normally about 1/3 your annual consumption worth of panels is the sweet spot.

$4 per watt is brutal. For me, parts are $1 a watt (2 panels per optimizer, one 20kW inverter with Rapid Shutdown and integrated Disconnect on both AC and DC) and racking. I'm going to re-roof the building first with, and pay folk to install, but total cost will be under $2.50 a watt. Note the re-roof is the most expensive component. If I skip it, it's $1.20 a watt.

 

[Az_Rael]

Financially, never produce power you can buy cheaper from the utility.

Only produce expensive power.

It is normally about 1/3 your annual consumption worth of panels is the sweet spot.

$4 per watt is brutal. For me, parts are $1 a watt (2 panels per optimizer, one 20kW inverter with Rapid Shutdown and integrated Disconnect on both AC and DC) and racking. I'm going to re-roof the building first with, and pay folk to install, but total cost will be under $2.50 a watt. Note the re-roof is the most expensive component. If I skip it, it's $1.20 a watt.

My other non-Tesla quotes are much less. Anywhere from $3 to $3.20/watt. I was disappointed TE wasn't more competitive. Because of that we probably will not be installing with them.

 

[WattsHappening]

@ Az_Rael,
That seems more like it. That is where most of my quotes came in. I did have Solar City give us a quote. While it was not $4.20/watt, it was nowhere close to competitive. No reason you can't have someone else do the solar install and then call in Tesla to install the PW2s afterwards.

 

[AEdennis]

@ Az_Rael,
That seems more like it. That is where most of my quotes came in. I did have Solar City give us a quote. While it was not $4.20/watt, it was nowhere close to competitive. No reason you can't have someone else do the solar install and then call in Tesla to install the PW2s afterwards.

If you get Enphase, there might be a challenge in the ability to see all the microinverters after the work is complete. I've paused my write up on my blog with Day One of my install until I get some clarity on go forward for my installs.

One thing I used to enjoy was visibility to each panel's production, but after the PW2 install, the signal sucks and I see a partial view of each panel's production. (They're using some sort of data stream over powerlines to report to the enphase box and it's just not getting a good signal and it's a $$$ truck roll from my solar provider (not Tesla/Solar City))

 

[Az_Rael]

If you get Enphase, there might be a challenge in the ability to see all the microinverters after the work is complete. I've paused my write up on my blog with Day One of my install until I get some clarity on go forward for my installs.

One thing I used to enjoy was visibility to each panel's production, but after the PW2 install, the signal sucks and I see a partial view of each panel's production. (They're using some sort of data stream over powerlines to report to the enphase box and it's just not getting a good signal and it's a $$$ truck roll from my solar provider (not Tesla/Solar City))

Good to know. I think TE was quoting a power optimizer setup, but by a brand I wasn't familiar with. Other quotes are for SolarEdge, so I wonder if it has the same issues.

We just got our 2nd bid in after a site survey which is coming in at $3.20/Watt for Panasonic 330 Watt panels and a SolarEdge inverter. They are coming in a full $19K lower than TE which boggles my mind. Definitely pays to shop around. Need to schedule the next company now.