Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[Arthur Itis]

But subsides AREN’T going away. Mainly just the potential Tesla ones. The rest is libertarian fantasy.
The outcome that needs influencing isn’t some trivial high school debate topic over the nature of government. And it is not whether GM lives or dies, it is whether the planet lives or dies.

When your government is broke/bankrupt/inflation becomes hyper due to money printing/debt loads and things start breaking down even more I suppose you can take solace in the idea that you got $7500 back and the polar bears have a better chance.

Not to mention people are moving to electric at a record pace already so explain to me again WHY the subsidies are necessary? WHY do union made EVs get an extra $4500 and how exactly does that benefit the environment and not GM?

 

[goin2drt]

I'm with Elon. I think all subsidies should go away. Let the free market decide and stop using taxpayer money to influence an outcome. Don't even get me started on the needless spending already going on and then these stupid incentives compound the problem.

I’m with you. As much as I would like the credit and hope we get one I would rather then entire thing not happen and put our great great grand children so far in debt in this country just to continue this needless spending on pork. Having said that if the bill does pass I am also in agreement this blood money being paid Extra for the “union made” vs “ American made” is complete and utter BS.

 

[Arthur Itis]

I’m with you. As much as I would like the credit and hope we get one I would rather then entire thing not happen and put our great great grand children so far in debt in this country just to continue this needless spending on pork. Having said that if the bill does pass I am also in agreement this blood money being paid Extra for the “union made” vs “ American made” is complete and utter BS.

The IAW union has contributed millions to a certain political party in Washington for decades. The $4500 is nothing more than a political payback and IMO outright corruption. It has ZERO to do with the environment. Those 'contributions' (not bribes) are also the reason Tesla is being ignored at the federal level. People who think this is all about saving the environment are naive. If it was, Elon would have been invited to the White House already and been given the Medal of Freedom for his work. Instead, they ignore him.

 

[advocate8]

When your government is broke/bankrupt/inflation becomes hyper due to money printing/debt loads and things start breaking down even more I suppose you can take solace in the idea that you got $7500 back and the polar bears have a better chance.

Not to mention people are moving to electric at a record pace already so explain to me again WHY the subsidies are necessary? WHY do union made EVs get an extra $4500 and how exactly does that benefit the environment and not GM?

Record pace is kind of a meaningless term. Sales have been “at record pace” I dunno, 15 years? Very very few Americans are buying EVs and manufacturers are mainly targetign buyers who can afford $50k and up. The $25K segment needs to become practical for manufacturers and it isn’t and won’t be for a long, long time.

My point though was less about EVs and more about the impossibility that oil and gas and farming subsidies etc will die even if inflation goes to pre-WW2 Germany levels. EV credits are a rounding error compared with the credits other industries get.

And yeah, I’d take polar bears if it meant 100 percent inflation. But that isn’t the choice in front of us. Even if BBB doesn’t pass we’re going to get the inflation anyway, based more on scarcity of goods than government action.
It’s also likely if the bill passes, it will pay its way. It’s fairly close to that now, and will be cut much, much further if anything gets through Manchin.

 

[advocate8]

The IAW union has contributed millions to a certain political party in Washington for decades. The $4500 is nothing more than a political payback and IMO outright corruption. It has ZERO to do with the environment. Those 'contributions' (not bribes) are also the reason Tesla is being ignored at the federal level. People who think this is all about saving the environment are naive. If it was, Elon would have been invited to the White House already and been given the Medal of Freedom for his work. Instead, they ignore him.

The union boost should go, the playing field should be level. The deficit is mainly about the previous ideological tax cuts, though.

 

[SageBrush]

The $4500 is nothing more than a political payback

Of course it is. But I fail to see why it is different than business as usual by both political parties. Washington just spend 4 years diverting huge sums of money to the Southern states as payback for supporting trump and to cement their hold. I don't remember reading your angst then, and I cannot think of a single silver lining to *that* corruption.

 

[Arthur Itis]

Of course it is. But I fail to see why it is different than business as usual by both political parties. Washington just spend 4 years diverting huge sums of money to the Southern states as payback for supporting trump and to cement their hold. I don't remember reading your angst then, and I cannot think of a single silver lining to *that* corruption.

I'm not here to defend anybody in Washington. It's all corrupt and I'm against all of it. I guess I would have lived up to you expectations and spoke out against it in these forums....IF I was a member back then.

 

[doomsday997]

Record pace is kind of a meaningless term. Sales have been “at record pace” I dunno, 15 years? Very very few Americans are buying EVs and manufacturers are mainly targetign buyers who can afford $50k and up. The $25K segment needs to become practical for manufacturers and it isn’t and won’t be for a long, long time.

My point though was less about EVs and more about the impossibility that oil and gas and farming subsidies etc will die even if inflation goes to pre-WW2 Germany levels. EV credits are a rounding error compared with the credits other industries get.

And yeah, I’d take polar bears if it meant 100 percent inflation. But that isn’t the choice in front of us. Even if BBB doesn’t pass we’re going to get the inflation anyway, based more on scarcity of goods than government action.
It’s also likely if the bill passes, it will pay its way. It’s fairly close to that now, and will be cut much, much further if anything gets through Manchin.

Forget just manchin. It hasn’t even gone through the parliamentarian “Byrd Bath” yet. There are a bunch of things in the bill that she could very well axe before it even gets to manchin.

That being said the NDAA and debt ceiling went through faster than expected so the path is technically clear for them to work on BBB. Although I’m still very skeptical it will be done this year

 

[doomsday997]

The union boost should go, the playing field should be level. The deficit is mainly about the previous ideological tax cuts, though.

I think it’s more likely than not the Union boost will get cut at this point

 

[Fluffhead]

Forget just manchin. It hasn’t even gone through the parliamentarian “Byrd Bath” yet. There are a bunch of things in the bill that she could very well axe before it even gets to manchin

Correct, though they've been having informal discussions with the her. The formal process could be finished be end of next week if they can finalize final text this week. Don't quote me on this but that's what I've been reading.

 

[advocate8]

Forget just manchin. It hasn’t even gone through the parliamentarian “Byrd Bath” yet. There are a bunch of things in the bill that she could very well axe before it even gets to manchin.

That being said the NDAA and debt ceiling went through faster than expected so the path is technically clear for them to work on BBB. Although I’m still very skeptical it will be done this year

this is rational, sane and pretty much impossible to argue with.

 

[advocate8]

I think it’s more likely than not the Union boost will get cut at this point

surely it is as certain as anything gets in DC

 

[doomsday997]

Correct, though they've been having informal discussions with the her. The formal process could be finished be end of next week if they can finalize final text this week. Don't quote me on this but that's what I've been reading.

Correct much of the process with the parliamentarian is actually informal and done through memos. There is no grand ceremony or anything like that. Each side can make arguments for or against and she makes the final decision. The only things I’m aware of that she’s shot down so far were the two initial immigration amnesty provisions that they wanted to add but that was months ago.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Correct much of the process with the parliamentarian is actually informal and done through memos. There is no grand ceremony or anything like that. Each side can make arguments for or against and she makes the final decision. The only things I’m aware of that she’s shot down so far were the two initial immigration amnesty provisions that they wanted to add but that was months ago.

No más, Tomas.

 

[nate704]

I prefer people who stay on the topic.

 

[soumak]

this thread is way tooo political now. this is all i'll say. I have placed an order for a MY LR for next year. if this bill does not pass and give me the 8k plus the 2k from my state of colorado, i'll have to back away from this car and look for a cheaper option. i'm sure there are quite a few others in the same boat. i realize i don't get that money back until 2023 tax time, but its still something i'll get back and i can plan for that.
if the goal of tesla is to be affordable, then they should not have raised the price of the MY so much to then chew though the incentives. its ironic that they raise their prices up to about the same level as the BBB plan.

 

[nate704]

I have placed an order for a MY LR for next year. if this bill does not pass and give me the 8k plus the 2k from my state of colorado, i'll have to back away from this car and look for a cheaper option.

You should never plan to buy anything outside your budget or financial ability.

 

[soumak]

You should never plan to buy anything outside your budget or financial ability without factoring in any kind of help.

Why not? If the bill passes and i get the car then its fine. if it doesn't i'll back out and lose the deposit. not going outside my budget.

 

[casey72017]

I don't like subsidies of any kind. Not for anybody. I don't feel it's the governments job to hand out taxpayer dollars to specific causes or interests - to pick winners and losers. Let the free market do that as people are intelligent enough to know what's good for them (mostly).

You missed the most important reason behind this: the climate concern, and therefore the incentive is in place for the hope to accelerate the transition to EV. Whether you support this purpose or not, it is something that the supporters of the current government care about, and therefore the government needs to provide guidance here in support of this purpose.

A low income family can't afford to buy an electric car any time soon so they won't benefit from their tax dollars being handed out to people who will. They are likely driving beat up used cars and probably will for some time to come - until Tesla or someone else starts selling an affordable EV.

As of current, Nissan Leaf is not considered affordable in your view? What about all the other new EVs that will be popping out in the next few years just because the incentive is doing its job in raising general publics' interest in switching to EVs?

Also, for many middle class families and individuals, this incentive is important in their decisions of adopting a "luxury" EV like Tesla. This $7k+ discount makes huge difference when evaluating whether to go for a Tesla (say, for Model Y, this is a 10%+ discount) v.s. traditional luxury car brands, at least that is for me and people around me. Without the incentive, I would struggle between getting a Model Y v.s. getting a luxury ICE and putting this $7k+ to other investments; while with the incentive, I would get a Model Y without any doubt. So, that does make a difference!

 

[casey72017]

Why not? If the bill passes and i get the car then its fine. if it doesn't i'll back out and lose the deposit. not going outside my budget.

I second this, why not? Especially in this case you just lose the order fee.

And I have to say @nate704, with Model Y LR, "financial ability" is most likely not the concern here. If you can afford a Model Y LR comfortably, you are likely going to afford it even without the incentive. The issue is, is it worth getting it for the additional $7k+? This involves rationalizing the price versus what the car offers, the build quality of the car, etc. With $7k+ difference, there is much to think whether this investment is good or not. Many people are smart and careful with $$ nowadays, and this $7k could go to other investments, whether it be a better car option or financials.

I have a MYP in order, and without the incentive, I don't think the car is "worth" it anymore in my book.