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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

origingalatic

Member
Jul 18, 2020
241
150
new york
Now this is actually a brilliant idea. It would essentially allow Tesla to sell FSD on every car, they’d make more money at zero marginal cost, the cost to the buyer stays the same, and buyers are getting something of value so optically it doesn’t just look like Tesla jacked up prices to offset the tax credit.

We don't know what sort of provision will be in place. Income or any sort of limit on car prices. They could very well do upto limit of $50k and 250k income if his pre-election proposal carries through.
 

MY_Boy_Blue

Member
Jan 31, 2021
39
38
USA
Not if there is some kind of price ceiling on the tax credit... like in some states their credits don’t Spot over $60k purchase price. Makes more sense to offer FSD (or a reduced capacity version) cheaper every February or March when folks will be getting their larger tax refunds. Kinda like they do more with FSD and the acceleration boost.

Increasing the price and including FSD would go against the subscription model too.
 

M3Nicola

Member
Mar 23, 2019
90
115
USA
We don't know what sort of provision will be in place. Income or any sort of limit on car prices. They could very well do upto limit of $50k and 250k income if his pre-election proposal carries through.
True, but the way it’s written now it’s just an extension of the old rules, so no income caps, etc. on new cars. I hope that remains true.
 

M3Nicola

Member
Mar 23, 2019
90
115
USA
Not if there is some kind of price ceiling on the tax credit... like in some states their credits don’t Spot over $60k purchase price. Makes more sense to offer FSD (or a reduced capacity version) cheaper every February or March when folks will be getting their larger tax refunds. Kinda like they do more with FSD and the acceleration boost.

Increasing the price and including FSD would go against the subscription model too.
Subscription model would still be valid for the hundreds of thousands of Teslas already on the road, Teslas sold in other countries, and when Tesla hits the new cap next year and the tax credit ends.
 

bdaviskc

Member
Nov 21, 2020
52
20
Overland Park, KS
So does "sold date" mean the day you ordered or the day you took delivery?
Date you place order/pay your $100--you've made a purchase at that point. Following another thread on Reddit and NJ buyer qualified for a 2020 state tax credit upon taking delivery in 2021 because Tesla paperwork listed purchase date as the date order was placed (in that case was in 2020)--if you think about it, you are paying $100, nonrefundable, towards the car so you have purchased, you just haven't fully paid yet.

Hate the wording of this bill (no retroactive application) as I am about to purchase a Y, but going to wait now. Don't urgently need a car--existing one is fine/low miles and just wanted to make a switch to EV. Now, I'm just in wait and see mode--absolutely no reason to pass up a chance at $7k discount and even if Tesla raises prices/offsets the credit it doesn't really matter to me so long as I am not 'worse off' $-wise which doubt I will be by simply waiting a bit to see what happens.

Wish this wasn't the case as I was getting excited about ordering/taking delivery, but guess its a waiting game now. Would be nice if Tesla would come out and take a position on the situiaton.
 
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Radish11

Member
Jan 24, 2021
22
5
Usa
I don’t think the government should pass this. It’s hard to believe there is any universe where the federal government giving $7000 to very well off new car purchasers is the most effective use of that money.

That’s real money that could be used for investing in carbon trapping technology, solar research, and other renewable energies.
 
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Two-rocks

Member
Jan 18, 2021
120
129
gone
Wish this wasn't the case as I was getting excited about ordering/taking delivery, but guess its a waiting game now. Would be nice if Tesla would come out and take a position on the situiaton.

This is just babbling political BS at this point, and nothing can or will be said.

It should fail, and fail fast. Special interest pandering (GM) at it's finest.
 
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M3Nicola

Member
Mar 23, 2019
90
115
USA
I don’t think the government should pass this. It’s hard to believe there is any universe where the federal government giving $7000 to very well off new car purchasers is the most effective use of that money.

That’s real money that could be used for investing in carbon trapping technology, solar research, and other renewable energies.
As much as I would like a $7000 rebate on the purchase of my upcoming Tesla, I agree with you. Tesla will almost certainly sell its next 400,000 vehicles as quickly as it can produce them. Which means our fellow tax payers would have spent $2.8B for essentially little/no incremental benefit.
 
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DanDi58

Member
Jun 22, 2020
698
511
Dayton NJ
I find it hard to believe it would be retroactive. Why would they provide a credit for anyone that has already purchased a vehicle? And the manufacturers certainly would not want that to be the case, especially if there is another sales cap. Frankly, it's a waste of our money to give a credit to those of us that have already purchased - I'd be against that, personally. I missed out on a $5k NJ rebate (cash) because I wasn't ready to order in December. I'm not waiting around to see if 'maybe' they reintroduce it later this year.
 

patmurphey

Member
Aug 26, 2020
62
63
New Jersey
A retroactive incentive is NOT an incentive. Tesla customers deserve to participate in this largess as well as customers for other brands.

Sadly, when considering the purpose of the incentive, a production limit fails to encourage manufacturers to step up production, and competitively penalizes manufacturers that do step up, in fact failing to accomplish the goal. The EVs coming on the market now (and Teslas) will see sales of every car made. It's stepping up production, cars and batteries, that is the big failure for all except Tesla
 
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origingalatic

Member
Jul 18, 2020
241
150
new york
Did you see the huge bump in price on S/X?

Tesla needs to make money, and they're still really banking on carbon offset credits. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla bumped up each option by $500 and base price by $1,000 or so. In fact, I think they bumped up the price on Model 3 last year or something didn't they?

You can buy the "old" S/X for the previous price. Tesla has a habit of passing the cost savings to customers, not raising them, except for FSD.....
 

origingalatic

Member
Jul 18, 2020
241
150
new york
I find it hard to believe it would be retroactive. Why would they provide a credit for anyone that has already purchased a vehicle? And the manufacturers certainly would not want that to be the case, especially if there is another sales cap. Frankly, it's a waste of our money to give a credit to those of us that have already purchased - I'd be against that, personally. I missed out on a $5k NJ rebate (cash) because I wasn't ready to order in December. I'm not waiting around to see if 'maybe' they reintroduce it later this year.

It won't be retroactive, the whole point is to incentivize people to buy EV. If you already got one, why would they give you credit now? It won't increase the number of adoption, defeating the whole purpose of the bill.

There were critics before about ppl with economic ability to buy a 100k model S and getting $7500 tax credits. Those critics completely missed the point, this is not about savings, this is about climate change. Making this a class and economic issue only makes the adoption slower.... Nissan Leaf is a prime example of that.

As for NJ, the rumor is the bill might be back in summer timeframe. NJ already enjoys a sales tax free for EV, this will for sure make ppl switch from ICE to EV if they are in the market.
 
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rusmo

New Member
Feb 12, 2021
1
2
Marietta, GA
Important to note, the phaseout wouldn't start immediately after the 600,000th vehicle is sold. From the article, emphasis mine.

...phaseout period that instead begins during the second calendar quarter after the 600,000-vehicle threshold is reached. At the start of the new phaseout period, the credit is reduced by 50% for one quarter and terminates thereafter​
 

origingalatic

Member
Jul 18, 2020
241
150
new york
Important to note, the phaseout wouldn't start immediately after the 600,000th vehicle is sold. From the article, emphasis mine.

...phaseout period that instead begins during the second calendar quarter after the 600,000-vehicle threshold is reached. At the start of the new phaseout period, the credit is reduced by 50% for one quarter and terminates thereafter​

be prepare for another production crunch!!!

Also, did I interpret the proposal correctly that Tesla will be counted for 400k more allocation since it already passed 200k vehicle sold prior the enactment of the bill.

I think it's also important to note that the used EV also qualifies for some credit. This should help used Tesla maintaining it's residual after the bill is introduced.
 
Jun 26, 2020
80
83
Maine
It’s hard to believe there is any universe where the federal government giving $7000 to very well off new car purchasers is the most effective use of that money.

Tesla will almost certainly sell its next 400,000 vehicles as quickly as it can produce them. Which means our fellow tax payers would have spent $2.8B for essentially little/no incremental benefit.

Well I wouldn't complain about getting $7k myself, but don't forget this isn't directed at just Tesla owners. The object is to incentivize ALL EV purchases, from the most-affordable to the more extravagant. It's a modest step in the right direction to accelerate the shift away from carbon-based fuels. The projected long-term costs of climate change dwarf these minor investments in preventive medicine.

Side note, just because you might own a Tesla doesn't necessarily mean you're "very well off". I'm expecting the TCO on mine to be roughly equivalent to my prior Honda Accord, and most Accord owners probably wouldn't apply that label to themselves.
 

imola.zhp

Member
Jul 13, 2020
408
226
Memphis
If I were Tesla, I would raise price by $7,000 and include the "Full Self Driving" option with each car. Then they can call it a $3,000 discount when they are actually raising the average transaction price by quite some margin.


Someone should tweet this to Elon, I love this idea.


Not if there is some kind of price ceiling on the tax credit... like in some states their credits don’t Spot over $60k purchase price. Makes more sense to offer FSD (or a reduced capacity version) cheaper every February or March when folks will be getting their larger tax refunds. Kinda like they do more with FSD and the acceleration boost.

Increasing the price and including FSD would go against the subscription model too.


Currently there is no income restrictions or price cap for the vehicle.
There are plenty of existing cars on the road without FSD, the take rate is not very high.


Subscription model would still be valid for the hundreds of thousands of Teslas already on the road, Teslas sold in other countries, and when Tesla hits the new cap next year and the tax credit ends.


Bingo, owners post-credit would have the subscription model as an option.
 

acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,405
1,475
Richland, WA
Someone should tweet this to Elon, I love this idea.





Currently there is no income restrictions or price cap for the vehicle.
There are plenty of existing cars on the road without FSD, the take rate is not very high.





Bingo, owners post-credit would have the subscription model as an option.

Tesla isn't able to recognize the entire selling price of FSD yet, so that doesn't help them out a huge amount short term. By the time FSD actually hits in a legitimate way (think FSD Beta is fleet wide), I suspect take rate will jump up a decent amount. Until then though, now the entry price is MUCH higher, which for someone that might not have the ability to write off the full $7,000 in taxes due might be a deal breaker. You've increased the price of a LR Model 3 by almost 20% by doing that, yet someone may only be able to get a $5500 tax credit or something. (A $57k tax home pay [so after any 401k or health insurance deductions, etc] would result in about $5,600 due in tax if you have zero other deductions.) Before you complain that someone making an amount of money lower than would result in the full tax credit, if you could put $10k down on the car and got the $5,600 in taxes you paid back, that would result in a monthly payment of $550 on a LR Model 3 AWD with a 5 year loan at 1.99%. That doesn't seem unreasonable in today's world for someone that had a take home of $4,750/mo.

I still think if Tesla wants to increase selling cost (profit on vehicles) they could increase upgrades costs a little. This keeps the "entry price" the same (even lower when you factor tax credit), but could snatch an extra $500 from paint color upgrades and maybe interior color upgrades, stuff like that. Even a $500 increase (assuming most that if not all is profit) on 75,000 cars in a quarter would result in $37 million additional. If people got a color upgrade and white interior that would result in $74 million. Eh, heck, maybe bump the price of a LR version up $500 or $750 and you've got another possible $56 million or so. Now sure all those numbers sound very small, but if that's mainly profit for them then that could increase their profits by like 20% to 40% for the quarter! That increase would still be small for the buyer though that either could get white on black and only be out an extra $750 or something (but have a tax credit), or get a color on white and be out $1,750 extra (but again, have a tax credit now).
 

patmurphey

Member
Aug 26, 2020
62
63
New Jersey
Speculating that Tesla would increase prices goes against current practice of recent reductions and goes against Musk's stated Tesla goals of reducing the cost of going electric.
 

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