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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

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If phev incentives didn't exist there would be more money to be put towards ev incentives. Could theoretically double
Historically, if PHEVs didn't exist there would be no BEVs. :)
I think the PHEV has been a gateway into the EV world for many people, and continuing to incentivize them now will lead to more buyers stepping their toes in the water. Then, when they see how much nicer the EV portion of the ride is, their next vehicle will be a full-up BEV.

This may be a more effective long-game path than just discounting BEVs now. Just a thought.
 
It's not just the emissions that matter though. It's the overall impact on the planet. Clearly the BEVs have no emissions now, but they did at one point while being made. And except for those powered by solar, some electric company still has to produce the electricity to charge and recharge the car. From what I've read there is probably a substantial environmental impact to create the batteries and to eventually dispose of them. I have not yet seen a study of the overall impact of a BEV over its lifetime. It might be better than a PHEV or ICE vehicle but it's certainly not "emission free". I don't know all the facts yet and plan to learn more about this.
Batteries will not be disposed of. They will be recycled and the materials will be an economical source of raw materials for new batteries, reducing the impact of mining and refining. With that,, production of EVs will have a lesser impact than ICE cars.
 
Historically, if PHEVs didn't exist there would be no BEVs. :)
I think the PHEV has been a gateway into the EV world for many people, and continuing to incentivize them now will lead to more buyers stepping their toes in the water. Then, when they see how much nicer the EV portion of the ride is, their next vehicle will be a full-up BEV.

This may be a more effective long-game path than just discounting BEVs now. Just a thought.
Which is what happened to me.
 
Historically, if PHEVs didn't exist there would be no BEVs. :)
I think the PHEV has been a gateway into the EV world for many people, and continuing to incentivize them now will lead to more buyers stepping their toes in the water. Then, when they see how much nicer the EV portion of the ride is, their next vehicle will be a full-up BEV.

This may be a more effective long-game path than just discounting BEVs now. Just a thought.
I think they could have some incentive but a union built phev should not get more incentive than a tesla
 
It's not just the emissions that matter though. It's the overall impact on the planet. Clearly the BEVs have no emissions now, but they did at one point while being made. And except for those powered by solar, some electric company still has to produce the electricity to charge and recharge the car. From what I've read there is probably a substantial environmental impact to create the batteries and to eventually dispose of them. I have not yet seen a study of the overall impact of a BEV over its lifetime. It might be better than a PHEV or ICE vehicle but it's certainly not "emission free". I don't know all the facts yet and plan to learn more about this.

Here is a report from the EPA with charts ->


And if you live in an area that has lots of clean energy (like me in Idaho State Electricity Generation Fuel Shares ) its much better. But I believe the EPA is national average energy sources. If you have solar on your house, emmissions are DRASTICALLY less than an ICE car. Hard to tell from the chart, but around 1/8th less?

Of course, as the national power grid gets cleaner, the difference between ICE and BEV gets clearly better.
 
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Why do we need EV tax rebates? To incentivize people to buy EVs, because they're better for the environment. If EVs are better, than why do we need to incentivize buying them, by don't people just buy them because they're better? Well, this may or may not be an unpopular viewpoint, but my opinion is that the EV rebates existed, and need to continue to exist SOLELY BECAUSE there are downsides to EV ownership. Range anxiety is a big thing to new and prospective BEV owners, as well as charging stops and other things... We don't need a tax incentive to tell people to buy a Mercedes S-Class with large gas tank and the ability to fill up anywhere, because the S-Class is already a desirable car, and gasoline is a very convenient and widely available fuel source - but it has a number of environmental concerns. I've been driving electric for many years now (and am now converting my wife to it), but I understand and accept that it's not as convenient to be all-electric as it is with gas.

It's gotten much better over the years, but still If I take a road trip, I have to factor in stopping to charge. If I'm new to electric cars, I have to pay to have a charger (or a 14-50 outlet) installed by an electrician, which I don't need for buying another gas car (and might not be able to justify for a short PHEV range, although literally your mileage may vary haha). I'm a nerd and I like new tech, so I'll deal with these, but in order to get the masses onboard, something else is needed. BEV tax breaks are the carrot on the stick to get people to deal with these (admittedly minor) inconveniences.

The first generation hybrid cars were a great bridge to reduce emissions prior to BEV technology being ready for prime-time. Now that BEVs are viable transport options with decent (+200mi) real-world range, the same manufacturers who have been selling hybrids have come out with PHEVs to compete with them. PHEVs offer the feel-good marketing that you can go in EV-mode (although only a US DoE average of ~33 miles), but then not have to deal with charging stop delays on road trips, or inconvenience if you forgot to charge the night before, and you don't even need to spend $500 - $1000 to get a 14-50 outlet installed for charging at home, because you can always just fill up at the gas station down the road. Granted, nerds like me (and I'm sure most if not all of the people on this forum) would certainly spring for it, but maybe not your average ICE driver. PHEVs pretty much remove any concerns about driving electric cars, by effectively being 10% EV, and 90% ICE (by range). If I walk into a dealership intending to buy an ICE, but the PHEV has a 5-figure government credit, I'll likely buy that if it it's a better deal... but will I use it as an EV? Although I disagree with any ICE (hybrid or otherwise) getting any tax rebate at all, I wouldn't be against a sliding scale based on range (as someone had mentioned upthread).

TL;DR: We shouldn't incentivize PHEVs with tax breaks, as they incentivize continuing to use gasoline.
 
Why do we need EV tax rebates? To incentivize people to buy EVs, because they're better for the environment. If EVs are better, than why do we need to incentivize buying them, by don't people just buy them because they're better? Well, this may or may not be an unpopular viewpoint, but my opinion is that the EV rebates existed, and need to continue to exist SOLELY BECAUSE there are downsides to EV ownership. Range anxiety is a big thing to new and prospective BEV owners, as well as charging stops and other things... We don't need a tax incentive to tell people to buy a Mercedes S-Class with large gas tank and the ability to fill up anywhere, because the S-Class is already a desirable car, and gasoline is a very convenient and widely available fuel source - but it has a number of environmental concerns. I've been driving electric for many years now (and am now converting my wife to it), but I understand and accept that it's not as convenient to be all-electric as it is with gas.

It's gotten much better over the years, but still If I take a road trip, I have to factor in stopping to charge. If I'm new to electric cars, I have to pay to have a charger (or a 14-50 outlet) installed by an electrician, which I don't need for buying another gas car (and might not be able to justify for a short PHEV range, although literally your mileage may vary haha). I'm a nerd and I like new tech, so I'll deal with these, but in order to get the masses onboard, something else is needed. BEV tax breaks are the carrot on the stick to get people to deal with these (admittedly minor) inconveniences.

The first generation hybrid cars were a great bridge to reduce emissions prior to BEV technology being ready for prime-time. Now that BEVs are viable transport options with decent (+200mi) real-world range, the same manufacturers who have been selling hybrids have come out with PHEVs to compete with them. PHEVs offer the feel-good marketing that you can go in EV-mode (although only a US DoE average of ~33 miles), but then not have to deal with charging stop delays on road trips, or inconvenience if you forgot to charge the night before, and you don't even need to spend $500 - $1000 to get a 14-50 outlet installed for charging at home, because you can always just fill up at the gas station down the road. Granted, nerds like me (and I'm sure most if not all of the people on this forum) would certainly spring for it, but maybe not your average ICE driver. PHEVs pretty much remove any concerns about driving electric cars, by effectively being 10% EV, and 90% ICE (by range). If I walk into a dealership intending to buy an ICE, but the PHEV has a 5-figure government credit, I'll likely buy that if it it's a better deal... but will I use it as an EV? Although I disagree with any ICE (hybrid or otherwise) getting any tax rebate at all, I wouldn't be against a sliding scale based on range (as someone had mentioned upthread).

TL;DR: We shouldn't incentivize PHEVs with tax breaks, as they incentivize continuing to use gasoline.
From what i've heard and I admit, I dont fully understand the completly, the alternative or better solution to tax insentives would be a carbon tax, or in other words dont give electric cars credits, but tax emmiting cars to even the plqying field, and i coukd be wrong but it wouldnt even be taxing ICE cars, it would just be to stop spending billions on subsidies for oil industry. I dont see this happening as 95% of people drive ICE cars and it would be political suicide. So the only other option is to also incentivice BEVs just like ICE cars. Weather thats a good practice or not its for everyone to decide.
 
Looks like the final language of the House bill will be finalized tomorrow and we should get a good indication what cuts are being made.

Link
NPR made it sound like it will likely go from 3.5 trillion to something quite a bit smaller to please the moderate wing of the party. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. The more progressive side wants the child tax credit monthly payments to continue forever. Sigh.
 
NPR made it sound like it will likely go from 3.5 trillion to something quite a bit smaller to please the moderate wing of the party. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. The more progressive side wants the child tax credit monthly payments to continue forever. Sigh.
My guess based on comments from some moderates (mostly Manchin) is that Medicare expansion and clean energy standards will be the first to get cuts. Other programs will get means testing such as funding for PreK, child tax credit and free community college. Total guess but the final package will be around $2.5-2.8T.
 
Probably makes more sense to remove FSD. Even if FSD increases in price, then you still get the config of the car you want and qualify for the rebate. Then just use the rebate to pay for your separate FSD purchase. Plus you'll get $10,000 plus tax in points on your credit card. Just my 2 cents.
ah also didn't think about the sales tax implication of buying after delivery hmmm; in NJ there is no sales tax charged for EVs, so that's a $700 savings at 7% on FSD purchase...agree that it would be great to get the card points but won't outweigh the 7% hit for tax :(
 
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Does anyone know which specific line items are/aren't included in MSRP for the purpose of determining qualification for the potential tax credit? Need to be under $69k for SUVs like MY at least as currently written; my build is below. Do I need to get the 'car price' line to under $69k (remove $2,441)? The 'Total cost'? Vehicle+options but excluding dest/doc/order fees?

Screen Shot 2021-09-28 at 10.05.48 AM.png
 
TL;DR: We shouldn't incentivize PHEVs with tax breaks, as they incentivize continuing to use gasoline.
I disagree. But we need to be very careful on the structure.
Particularly because of the risk of being driven as a hybrid, PHEVs incentives shouldn't make them cheaper than equivalent ICEVs or HEVs becaue they will _always_ be more expensive due to their additive nature. For example, when I bought my Volt, after the tax credit, it was equivalent to paying MSRP on a $26k car. Not as cheap as as an equivalent Prius but not much more expensive.

Similarly, we should avoid giving PHEVs "convenience" incentives like free parking or HOV lane access because people will buy them for the convenience even if they don't plug in.

Incentives should be structured to make them cheaper or the same _cost_ _if_ they are plugged in.
So, the EVSE tax credit is a good one, for example.
 
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I'm not tax expert but I'd suspect the "Car Price" total is probably what you're looking for.
Does anyone know which specific line items are/aren't included in MSRP for the purpose of determining qualification for the potential tax credit? Need to be under $69k for SUVs like MY at least as currently written; my build is below. Do I need to get the 'car price' line to under $69k (remove $2,441)? The 'Total cost'? Vehicle+options but excluding dest/doc/order fees?
Why not drop FSD until after you get the car and the rebate?
 
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