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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?
- Thread starter hnguy054
- Start date
Kind of. MSM is now a free paint option. So it’s the same price as my build even if the base price is $1k higher.
leaftoy
Member
I will try one more time and then it is not worth either of our times to continue discussing. I am not saying borrowing to invest is better when cost of borrowing is much lower that expected gains. I am just saying delta is not as large as you are making out to be.
Let us say there are two TSLY's with 60k in the bank. TSLY-A pays for the car outright. TSLY-B invests the whole amount and finances the whole car. Next month, where does TSLY-B getting his/her monthly payment? Is he/she going to sell some of their investment to make the monthly payment? If this is the case, you need to model this, both the sale of stocks as well as tax impact. Or are you saying they have some other source of funds to make the monthly payment. If so, to be fair and to be sure you are comparing apples to apples, you need to have TSLY-A invest whatever cash they didn't need to come up from their cash flow since they have no payments. Basically either model the person who invested and financed to pay their monthly from their investment (i.e., the investment continuously reduces as it is gaining in stock market). Or have the person who paid in cash invest the monthly payment.
Either way if you assume the 11 year bull market is going to continue the same way next 6 years, you will still come out ahead by investing/financing. But not as drastic as your invalid modeling shows.
TSLY
Member
And suppose your investment goes downhill? @leaftoy is correct, investing the value of a monthly lease or loan payment is a prudent strategy. So is saving it or keeping it on the sideline. Different courses for different horses. Don't try fitting square pegs into round holes. I said I was an investors so you must assume I have investments, right? Most investor keep cash on the sidelines for inevitable market corrections.
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carlos31820
Member
This is well laid out and I agree with all of it. Though, I believe that there is one further disadvantage for person A because if they are being responsible about keeping a reasonable amount of liquid assets at all times (let's say $60K), they will actually need to liquidate an extra $60K up front so that after buying the car outright, they still have $60K of liquid "emergency" funds handy. Person B doesn't need to liquidate any additional funds assuming their monthly income is more than enough to cover all expenses plus car payments. Your point about doing an apples to apples comparison still stands and person A will obviously be able to start putting a lot more money every month into non-liquid investments, but trying to keep a sizeable amount of liquid emergency funds on hand will be an additional initial drag on person A.
TSLY
Member
Everything is relative. Suppose your portfolios go up or down $60K every day? Then $60K is a rounding error. Just today, my investment in the MY appreciated over $1K due to another Tesla price increase. How many shares of Tesla would you have to own to make a $1K profit today? 62.5! How much money would that tie up? You'd have to have vested $76, 875 in TSLA stock to realize that $1K paper profit.
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Stay away from crypto and your 60k investment will almost certainly NOT go up or down 60k every day
Getting back to the real world and not mistaking price increase for "profit"... if you'd invested 60k in Tesla on say 9/5, you'd have around $96k today.
TSLY
Member
Not so! Depends on the size and allocation of your portfolios. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, I did realize a $1K appreciation in my MY purchase today. And it's not taxable like a sale of TSLA stock would be.Stay away from crypto and your 60k investment will almost certainly NOT go up or down 60k every day
Getting back to the real world and not mistaking price increase for "profit"... if you'd invested 60k in Tesla on say 9/5, you'd have around $96k today.
I gave a very specific example - if you ordered a car with the intent to purchase with cash on hand for 60k, on 9/5, the price of TSLA stock was around 750. Today that 60k worth of stock is worth $96k. Those are facts. It's highly likely even an index fund will yield a lot more than the 2.49% give or take you'll pay the bank for borrowing the full price of the car.
But it seems like you've got this all figured out so I'm not going to argue with you.
TSLY
Member
If? What does if mean? The point is, you didn't. I did! I also happen to own TSLA -- since way before 9/5. So I profited twice. And suppose you invested $60K in TSLA on 9/5 and it went down? I can guarantee you that it will. TSLA has turned on me more times than a doorknob.
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Nice. i think we may be talk past one another so perhaps best to get back to hand wringing and teeth gnashing over EV incentives
Finance involves too many factors to model for everything but having more cash flow and taking advantage of $60k of leverage for such a low interest rate seems like the best option for most people. When all you have to do is beat a 1.24%-2.49% return to breakeven, it makes a lot of sense to finance. Different strokes for different folks...
k.alexander
Member
Wtf are you guys talking about?Nice. i think we may be talk past one another so perhaps best to get back to hand wringing and teeth gnashing over EV incentives
More importantly, why are you talking about it on this EV tax credit thread?!!
And just so there’s no misunderstanding, those were rhetorical questions, no need to answer or argue them any further. Jesus, do people still argue online, has Facebook taught us nothing??!
k.alexander
Member
Here’s something actually related to the topic of this thread.
thehill.com
Democrats unite to send infrastructure bill to Biden’s desk
The House held a marathon session on Friday in an effort to pass President Biden’s $1.75 trillion social spending and climate package, which has been stuck in a battle within the party betwee…
thehill.com
Fluffhead
Member
It sounds like they're sending the Senate a bill that's going to be even harder to pass than the one they're working on now. I'm guessing this gets done on 12/31 at this rateHere’s something actually related to the topic of this thread.
Democrats unite to send infrastructure bill to Biden’s desk
The House held a marathon session on Friday in an effort to pass President Biden’s $1.75 trillion social spending and climate package, which has been stuck in a battle within the party betwee…
k.alexander
Member
Yes, correct, this is what the House has been signaling they would do for most of this week; a complete 180 from what they were saying for the last number of months as to what they would do.
House is doing this for one or two reasons. One, so that members there can say in their future campaigns that they voted for family leave, etc., even though those things have almost zero chance of passing the senate and hence becoming law.
The other reason is that they’re trying to appease the different coalitions just to finally get the thing through the House.
Senate will strip a bunch of this stuff, BUT HOPEFULLY still pass it. Big IF on that though. Afterwards, the House will probably accept what the Senate sends back down because the alternative is nothing at all.
It all rests with the Senate, if the Senate passes, we should in theory have a BBB bill for POTIS to sign, but Manchin could also just refuse to pass anything, in which case no BBB bill—hopefully not the case.
I personally still think this does get done in the end, but yeah probably not till December-ish.
Ha yes, me too! Wonder if Tesla is just switching all US deliveries to January and sending the rest elsewhere. Better for Tesla to enact that strat now than later, still have time for those deliveries to arrive overseas.
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