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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

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Latest version of the proposal changed the effective time "for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2021", see page 8:


Even so, I do not see any meaningful possibility that this bill can be passed without another round of significant overhaul. So if you want a Tesla, buy it now, do not wait.
The date of after this year refers to it changing from a non-refundable credit to refundable. Also the addition of $2,500 for American made and another $2,500 for Union made. As written it removes the vehicle cap for GM and Tesla after May 24, 2021.
 
Another thought I had when reading these comments from people choosing to buy something other than the Tesla is why are they posting here? I briefly read the forums for the MME and ID4 as those were on my short list, but never posted. Didn't need to as I made my decision based on the merits of the cars for our needs and wants and Tesla was the clear winner.

I also was a former VW Sciroco owner years ago and my first car was a '66 Mustang so those two are not strangers.

Maybe those buyers are just looking for a reason to reject the other brands, or as in this thread they really are willing to sacrifice for that tax credit. I just know that if I put that tax credit at the top of my priority list, I would not be happy the day after I took delivery.
Because limiting comment posting and excluding membership not the mission of TMC. Not sure what the other forums rules are, but everyone is welcome in this community, as long as you have an interest in Tesla ;)

Our mission is to build and nurture an online international community for all those interested in Tesla, from the novice to the expert. In doing so we aim to solve the needs of the community by providing tools that facilitate communication, sharing of information, and exchanges.

And it's fine if you choose to not care about money/tax/incentive. I get it. But many others may not be as fortunate, and will factor it into a purchase decision.
 
Latest version of the proposal changed the effective time "for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2021", see page 8:


Even so, I do not see any meaningful possibility that this bill can be passed without another round of significant overhaul. So if you want a Tesla, buy it now, do not wait.
Thank you @ElectricBro!

All this political BS on here. Everyone has opinions, ESPECIALLY when it comes to politics. I'm tired of hearing them, also don't recall asking.
AND I definitely did not ask you all to tell me how to make decisions regarding my purchases or planning my finances, I am 100% certain of that!

Can we just keep this to practical information about the numerous and various bills related to a potential EV Tax Credit?

Back on point, it seems to me there are a number of bills floating around. At a minimum:
- S. 395: Electric CARS Act of 2021 (Electric CARS Act of 2021 (S. 395))
- H.R. 1271: Electric CARS Act of 2021 (Electric CARS Act of 2021 (H.R. 1271))
- H.R. 848: GREEN Act of 2021 (GREEN Act of 2021 (H.R. 848))
- And the referenced above Clean Energy for America Act (https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Clean Energy for America Act.pdf) with the most recent cited above modifications/revisions (https://www.jct.gov/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=33437977-8766-469e-9327-301d1679f3ab)

Is everyone more or less in agreement at least that none of these have a strong chance of passing?
Follow up question, is everyone in agreement that the best chance of an EV Tax Credit in the near future (say within 6 months) is for something to be included in currently "discussed" Infrastructure Bill? Unless I am mistaken, and one of the above, likely the Clean Energy for American Act, is in fact part of the Infrastructure Bill (however I don't think that's the case)?
 
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That 12/31/21 date is only for the credit amount changes. The current 7500 credit remains in effect until then.
I don't see anything in this Chairman's Mark that mentions the removal of per-manufacturer caps, so I assume that means they are still proposing to remove them.
Full 76 page file:

1623767946182.png
 
Thank you @ElectricBro!

All this political BS on here. Everyone has opinions, ESPECIALLY when it comes to politics. I'm tired of hearing them, also don't recall asking.
AND I definitely did not ask you all to tell me how to make decisions regarding my purchases or planning my finances, I am 100% certain of that!

Can we just keep this to practical information about the numerous and various bills related to a potential EV Tax Credit?

Back on point, it seems to me there are a number of bills floating around. At a minimum:
- S. 395: Electric CARS Act of 2021 (Electric CARS Act of 2021 (S. 395))
- H.R. 1271: Electric CARS Act of 2021 (Electric CARS Act of 2021 (H.R. 1271))
- H.R. 848: GREEN Act of 2021 (GREEN Act of 2021 (H.R. 848))
- And the referenced above Clean Energy for America Act (https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Clean Energy for America Act.pdf) with the most recent cited above modifications/revisions (https://www.jct.gov/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=33437977-8766-469e-9327-301d1679f3ab)

Is everyone more or less in agreement at least that none of these have a strong chance of passing?
Follow up question, is everyone in agreement that the best chance of an EV Tax Credit in the near future (say within 6 months) is for something to be included in currently "discussed" Infrastructure Bill? Unless I am mistaken, and one of the above, likely the Clean Energy for American Act, is in fact part of the Infrastructure Bill (however I don't think that's the case)?

I'm fairly confident that the caps for Tesla and GM will be removed soon, which means we would be able to get a $7500 rebate on Teslas again. I just don't think it makes any sense for us to provide rebates for foreign brands to the disadvantage of two US makes. I'm much less confident on the other details.

For my part, I have ordered a vehicle to lock in the current prices. I'm going to stall delivery for as long as I can to see what happens with the rebates. If the rebates don't come back for Tesla, I'll probably hold off on buying one until the Austin factory is running. If it does come back, I'll get the car now. If the rebate comes back, Tesla will either raise prices, have huge waiting lists, or something somewhere in between. If you order now, the worst case scenario is that you end up not buying and lose the $100. I can live with that risk.
 
I'm fairly confident that the caps for Tesla and GM will be removed soon, which means we would be able to get a $7500 rebate on Teslas again. I just don't think it makes any sense for us to provide rebates for foreign brands to the disadvantage of two US makes. I'm much less confident on the other details.

For my part, I have ordered a vehicle to lock in the current prices. I'm going to stall delivery for as long as I can to see what happens with the rebates. If the rebates don't come back for Tesla, I'll probably hold off on buying one until the Austin factory is running. If it does come back, I'll get the car now. If the rebate comes back, Tesla will either raise prices, have huge waiting lists, or something somewhere in between. If you order now, the worst case scenario is that you end up not buying and lose the $100. I can live with that risk.

I guess we anticipate Model Y prices increasing, regardless. What about the Model Y LR RWD? When will this be available for order? I prefer this one, as I don't need the AWD. It would be nice to get the tax credit on this Y variant.
 
I guess we anticipate Model Y prices increasing, regardless. What about the Model Y LR RWD? When will this be available for order? I prefer this one, as I don't need the AWD. It would be nice to get the tax credit on this Y variant.
Don't expect the RWD until Giga Austin is up and running end of year or Q1 next year. And that's an if they bring it back. Also that was a standard range of 244 miles. I haven't heard of a LR RWD. Maybe if they bring back the RWD it will be more miles with 4680 battery cells. I would think the LR would also get a gain in mileage when they start using 4680s with Giga Austin. But the RWD will most likely always be less miles than the LR AWD.
 
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I'm fairly confident that the caps for Tesla and GM will be removed soon, which means we would be able to get a $7500 rebate on Teslas again. I just don't think it makes any sense for us to provide rebates for foreign brands to the disadvantage of two US makes. I'm much less confident on the other details.

For my part, I have ordered a vehicle to lock in the current prices. I'm going to stall delivery for as long as I can to see what happens with the rebates. If the rebates don't come back for Tesla, I'll probably hold off on buying one until the Austin factory is running. If it does come back, I'll get the car now. If the rebate comes back, Tesla will either raise prices, have huge waiting lists, or something somewhere in between. If you order now, the worst case scenario is that you end up not buying and lose the $100. I can live with that risk.
What was your order date? Recent orders have add'l language in the order agreement (near the end) that you must take delivery within 90 days. Not sure if it's enforceable, since most new orders are approaching 90 days even if the tasks are completed immediately, and any delays in financing, trade in, etc. would bust the 90-day window.
 
What was your order date? Recent orders have add'l language in the order agreement (near the end) that you must take delivery within 90 days. Not sure if it's enforceable, since most new orders are approaching 90 days even if the tasks are completed immediately, and any delays in financing, trade in, etc. would bust the 90-day window.
Official terms are 90 days. Unofficially it is probably 1 year. In the past officially it was 6 months and unofficially it was 2-3+ years or so. They are getting more strict. Personally they put a greater than 90 day hold on my order (106 days).

They are flexible and not enforcing the 90 days, but some people who had open orders for over a year have been told accept soon or lose deposit.
 
What was your order date? Recent orders have add'l language in the order agreement (near the end) that you must take delivery within 90 days. Not sure if it's enforceable, since most new orders are approaching 90 days even if the tasks are completed immediately, and any delays in financing, trade in, etc. would bust the 90-day window.

Official terms are 90 days. Unofficially it is probably 1 year. In the past officially it was 6 months and unofficially it was 2-3+ years or so. They are getting more strict. Personally they put a greater than 90 day hold on my order (106 days).

They are flexible and not enforcing the 90 days, but some people who had open orders for over a year have been told accept soon or lose deposit.

I'm coming up on on year. We attempted delivery on 01 August and the car was trash, to put it nicely, early'ish VIN 025225. Since then we've just been on hold. Tesla emailed me about a month or two ago to ask if we wanted to keep the order open. All I had to do was reply "yes" and the order is till open and on hold. The terms are set and the price is still set.

Where it may get interesting is if 4680 Y's get a new name, and price. LR-AWD+, Performance+, etc.
 
What was your order date? Recent orders have add'l language in the order agreement (near the end) that you must take delivery within 90 days. Not sure if it's enforceable, since most new orders are approaching 90 days even if the tasks are completed immediately, and any delays in financing, trade in, etc. would bust the 90-day window.
I ordered a couple of weeks back. My order contract did have the 90-day limit in it. I expect that they will start getting more serious about enforcing this.
 
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I'm coming up on on year. We attempted delivery on 01 August and the car was trash, to put it nicely, early'ish VIN 025225. Since then we've just been on hold. Tesla emailed me about a month or two ago to ask if we wanted to keep the order open. All I had to do was reply "yes" and the order is till open and on hold. The terms are set and the price is still set.

Where it may get interesting is if 4680 Y's get a new name, and price. LR-AWD+, Performance+, etc.
I’m not expecting that they will let us roll over a Fremont order to an Austin order. I think they will raise the prices to soak up the tax credit and use the new Austin features as an excuse to do so. At the very least, I bet the colors will all be different, so the orders won’t match.
 
Is everyone more or less in agreement at least that none of these have a strong chance of passing?
Follow up question, is everyone in agreement that the best chance of an EV Tax Credit in the near future (say within 6 months) is for something to be included in currently "discussed" Infrastructure Bill? Unless I am mistaken, and one of the above, likely the Clean Energy for American Act, is in fact part of the Infrastructure Bill (however I don't think that's the case)?
I believe there is a 54 50 chance it will pass the Senate with RINO votes if the Maj Leader chooses to use Reconciliation. The question remains will the Senate Rules allow it because it affects the budget. Doesn't matter if it is included in the infrastructure or stand alone. If they get infrastructure right, then it can get 60+ votes with R support.

The real issue I see the way it is written is it could be struck down by the courts, including a lower court judge and end up going to the USSC for final ruling.

Personally, I have problems with the discriminatory clauses in the proposal. There are two that I see in violation but these will need to be settled in the courts.
1. The May 24th qualifier which is a mid tax year benefit. Parts of the proposal qualify 3 wheels as 2021 tax year and 4 wheels qualify after May 24th. I have never seen a tax credit or deduction that uses an arbitrary mid tax year date for specific benefit.
2. Additional tax credits for cars made by organized labor. This was never a part of the NLRA. It also violates the 14th amendment equal protection and past efforts to give benefits of this nature have been struck down by the courts.

Other than case precedent we have no idea if either of these will change in order to achieve the goal of a Tax credit for Tesla that is equal and fair to all.

If it doesn't pass then I can only assume it is because of budget failure.


Bottom line hasn't changed from what I posted months ago which is the EV Tax credit is not going to be law anytime soon. It stands a better chance if it is a stand alone and the discriminations are removed and gets 60+ votes in the Senate and approved without modification in the House. We know Biden will sign anything like this so he is not the hold up.
 
I believe there is a 54 50 chance it will pass the Senate with RINO votes if the Maj Leader chooses to use Reconciliation. The question remains will the Senate Rules allow it because it affects the budget. Doesn't matter if it is included in the infrastructure or stand alone. If they get infrastructure right, then it can get 60+ votes with R support.

The real issue I see the way it is written is it could be struck down by the courts, including a lower court judge and end up going to the USSC for final ruling.

Personally, I have problems with the discriminatory clauses in the proposal. There are two that I see in violation but these will need to be settled in the courts.
1. The May 24th qualifier which is a mid tax year benefit. Parts of the proposal qualify 3 wheels as 2021 tax year and 4 wheels qualify after May 24th. I have never seen a tax credit or deduction that uses an arbitrary mid tax year date for specific benefit.
2. Additional tax credits for cars made by organized labor. This was never a part of the NLRA. It also violates the 14th amendment equal protection and past efforts to give benefits of this nature have been struck down by the courts.

Other than case precedent we have no idea if either of these will change in order to achieve the goal of a Tax credit for Tesla that is equal and fair to all.

If it doesn't pass then I can only assume it is because of budget failure.


Bottom line hasn't changed from what I posted months ago which is the EV Tax credit is not going to be law anytime soon. It stands a better chance if it is a stand alone and the discriminations are removed and gets 60+ votes in the Senate and approved without modification in the House. We know Biden will sign anything like this so he is not the hold up.

I agree that there are some constitutional questions, but there is a presumption of validity so we'll see. Maybe they (Congress or a court) can sever those bits and keep some credits. (e.g., lifting the cap but cutting the union stuff)

The bigger issue is that I don't see any meaningful EV credit getting 10 R votes. Hell, they're not only rejecting EV credits but want to add new taxes on EVs. I'm sure the comments of Cornyn (calling the EV bill "jihad" on his oil and gas state) and Barraso (similar opposition) account for a large number of R sentiment. I'm thinking this will need to be crammed through reconciliation or it won't pass, and even then, I can see it getting trimmed down in order to get moderate Ds onboard.
 
The bigger issue is that I don't see any meaningful EV credit getting 10 R votes. Hell, they're not only rejecting EV credits but want to add new taxes on EVs. I'm sure the comments of Cornyn (calling the EV bill "jihad" on his oil and gas state) and Barraso (similar opposition) account for a large number of R sentiment. I'm thinking this will need to be crammed through reconciliation or it won't pass, and even then, I can see it getting trimmed down in order to get moderate Ds onboard.
Thanks for that info. I haven't heard much in the news about it but then I haven't been looking for it either so I have been relying on mostly specific info here on the subject. I wonder how wide spread the R's are against EV's. There must be quite a bit of behind the door whipping for votes on it in between their frequent vacations.

I suppose we all could, at minimum, take some time off from posting here and poll our state senators and state congressmen on where they plan to vote on the issue. I might do that along with my 2 concerns for the current proposal and see what they report. I should put this on my calendar to do this week.
 
Thanks for that info. I haven't heard much in the news about it but then I haven't been looking for it either so I have been relying on mostly specific info here on the subject. I wonder how wide spread the R's are against EV's. There must be quite a bit of behind the door whipping for votes on it in between their frequent vacations.

I suppose we all could, at minimum, take some time off from posting here and poll our state senators and state congressmen on where they plan to vote on the issue. I might do that along with my 2 concerns for the current proposal and see what they report. I should put this on my calendar to do this week.

31 co-sponsors for S.1298 - Clean Energy for America Act. 1 Independent, rest Democrats: Passed out of Senate Finance Committee on tie party line vote 14-14.
40 co-sponsors for H.R.848 GREEN Act of 2021. All Democrats: Currently sitting within the House Ways and Means Committee.
 
@TravelFree and @PretecSH - thanks for your recent comments, very insightful.
I'd like to clarify, is the Clean Energy for America Act currently a separate bill or is it part of the Infrastructure bill or package? If it's a separate bill and not part of what is being discussed under the infrastructure, where or what (ev tax credit related) is being discussed as part of the Infrastructure bill?
 
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@TravelFree and @PretecSH - thanks for your recent comments, very insightful.
I'd like to clarify, is the Clean Energy for America Act currently a separate bill or is it part of the Infrastructure bill or package? If it's a separate bill and not part of what is being discussed under the infrastructure, where or what (ev tax credit related) is being discussed as part of the Infrastructure bill?
Currently there are 8 Infrastructure Bills circulating. There might be components of any of these "EV Credit" legislations included for negotiation. So as you might expect, it is nearly impossible unless you are working on The Hill to determine what is being put in or out and which Infrastructure Bill has "legs" for passing.
 
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I’m not expecting that they will let us roll over a Fremont order to an Austin order. I think they will raise the prices to soak up the tax credit and use the new Austin features as an excuse to do so. At the very least, I bet the colors will all be different, so the orders won’t match.

Agreed, I just hope I get lucky somehow. But I expect 4680 Austin Y's to be labeled SR+/LR+/P+. Think about it, the SR was already out, albeit short lived, but it was labeled SR not SR+ although it had all of the premium features (and more) that the SR+ 3 has. I think this hints that 4680 models will be badged, and priced, differently.
 
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