Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[Corndart]

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming someone making more ($125k+) automatically has more disposable income than someone making less ($67k). Sometimes true, but not always. Chances are the former also has higher expenses (mortgage/rent) when compared to the latter. Also, higher earners typically make more responsible financial decisions and an incentive to purchase one thing over another is just that.

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of looking at a single data point (income) and ignoring the rest of the "owner profile" picture this admittedly incomplete article tries to articulate. The over arching picture would suggest that the average USA Tesla owner is significantly better off than most, and is in lesser need of incentives. Think "hand out" vs. "hand up". There, I've exposed my inner libtard for you all to see ;-)

Looking forward to seeing what gets passed, if anything, by our dysfunctional representatives. Also re: "Republican position" - it's two Democrats that are holding up progress at this point so careful about throwing rocks in a glass house.

 

[Jasaka25]

I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming someone making more ($125k+) automatically has more disposable income than someone making less ($67k). Sometimes true, but not always. Chances are the former also has higher expenses (mortgage/rent) when compared to the latter. Also, higher earners typically make more responsible financial decisions and an incentive to purchase one thing over another is just that.

Not to mention the disparity of spending power by location. $82k individual income is considered low income in San Fran area according to HUD.

 

[Corndart]

Not to mention the disparity of spending power by location. $82k individual income is considered low income in San Fran area according to HUD.

That is a fair point - and the survey shows a high % of owners in CA and WA, presumably in the higher cost of living areas. Again, I wouldn't turn down free money but if I were signaling to my representatives where they should bulk up green energy spending, and what could probably die, I'd go for the "stick" end of the green bill and forgo the "carrot". Tesla has been wildly successful without any incentives.

 

[TheRev]

Not to mention the disparity of spending power by location. $82k individual income is considered low income in San Fran area according to HUD.

If you are a family with a combine income of $82k anywhere in the bay area, then you are low income, rent alone would be close to half of that income. Also when they come up with numbers like $82k income, they are talking about before taxes, and if you include both state and federal there goes another 30%. And lets not even talk about sales tax, I'd be surprise if any county here in the Bay Area charges less than 10% on sales tax. Its 10.75% where I live. How can you expect to buy a Tesla or any new car for that matter at that income.

 

[Corndart]

If you are a family with a combine income of $82k anywhere in the bay area, then you are low income, rent alone would be close to half of that income. Also when they come up with numbers like $82k income, they are talking about before taxes, and if you include both state and federal there goes another 30%. And lets not even talk about sales tax, I'd be surprise if any county here in the Bay Area charges less than 10% on sales tax. Its 10.75% where I live. How can you expect to buy a Tesla or any new car for that matter at that income.

Where are you getting 82k? Yep that's poverty level in the Bay Area, and as a denizen of a "bubble" area of income inequality (Seattle), don't let any specific regional economic bias detract focus from the overall picture.

"A Tesla Model 3 owner household makes $128,140 per year."

 

[TheRev]

That is a fair point - and the survey shows a high % of owners in CA and WA, presumably in the higher cost of living areas. Again, I wouldn't turn down free money but if I were signaling to my representatives where they should bulk up green energy spending, and what could probably die, I'd go for the "stick" end of the green bill and forgo the "carrot". Tesla has been wildly successful without any incentives.

Where are you getting 82k? Yep that's poverty level in the Bay Area, and as a denizen of a "bubble" area of income inequality (Seattle), don't let any specific regional economic bias detract focus from the overall picture.

"A Tesla Model 3 owner household makes $128,140 per year."

Where are you getting 82k? Yep that's poverty level in the Bay Area, and as a denizen of a "bubble" area of income inequality (Seattle), don't let any specific regional economic bias detract focus from the overall picture.

"A Tesla Model 3 owner household makes $128,140 per year."

The comment above that mentioned that according to HUD $82k in the bay area is considered low income, and all I said was that I agree, $82k in the bay area is low income, so dont expect anyone with that income to buy a Tesla or any new car for that matter, and that shoukd be the goal of the Tax credit, to help out people that need it so they can move into EVs.

 

[Corndart]

The comment above that mentioned that according to HUD $82k in the bay area is considered low income, and all I said was that I agree, $82k in the bay area is low income, so dont expect anyone with that income to buy a Tesla or any new car for that matter, and that shoukd be the goal of the Tax credit, to help out people that need it so they can move into EVs.

+1 yep, goal should be helping middle Americans move to EV ownership and get out of the ICE gasoline and maintenance trap. It's a win for them economically if done right, boosts the economy (consumerism, however you feel about it, is what powers our economy), and a benefit to the environment.

Making EV's the default choice for most people should be the goal. Hand outs for wealthier Americans isn't the right approach here IMO.

 

[thinktwice]

The over arching picture would suggest that the average USA Tesla owner is significantly better off than most, and is in lesser need of incentives.

I think an incentive is more of a coupon to make something look more attractive to purchase than it is a food stamp to make a purchase you wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. At least that's my perspective on it.

 

[patmurphey]

I know this is a Model Y forum, for the sake of rebate debate, the Model 3 Standard Range Plus out the door price with State and local rebates would be cheaper than the average new car price today. With an $8,000 Federal rebate, it would definitely be in an affordable range and a good price to encourage a move to an EV.

 

[rjpjnk]

It’s a complex issue deciding who should benefit from EV incentives and I don’t claim to have the answers, but would add that sometimes it takes wealthier people who can afford some risk as early adopters to kick start such a huge change. The more of us that drive EVs, the more it helps people feel comfortable with them, and eventually competition begins and causes prices to drop so more people can get in on the action. We are still in the pre competition phase.

 

[Ogre]

It’s a complex issue deciding who should benefit from EV incentives and I don’t claim to have the answers, but would add that sometimes it takes wealthier people who can afford some risk as early adopters to kick start such a huge change. The more of us that drive EVs, the more it helps people feel comfortable with them, and eventually competition begins and causes prices to drop so more people can get in on the action. We are still in the pre competition phase.

When BEVs and hybrids were experimental it made a ton of sense to bootstrap the industry. The 200,000 unit cap also made a ton of sense, enough to get the car-makers bootstrapped.

Now, the current measures they are looking at? Seem mostly like an awkward attempt to bolster failing US auto makers and collect some rust belt votes. All under the guise of “green energy”. Including PHEVs and the union clause in the measure is just pandering to GM & Ford.

 

[ishareit]

Would this incentive help increase EV sales over ICE? If the answer is yes, then the incentive makes sense, and it's somewhat irrelevant whether it benefits the automaker or the buyer.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jasaka25]

Where are you getting 82k? Yep that's poverty level in the Bay Area, and as a denizen of a "bubble" area of income inequality (Seattle), don't let any specific regional economic bias detract focus from the overall picture.

"A Tesla Model 3 owner household makes $128,140 per year."

$82k was for an individual. I think the number for family of four was $117k.

Information is from SF.gov but they are citing numbers / definitions from HUD.

Poverty in San Francisco | City Performance Scorecards

Citywide An estimated 10 percent of San Francisco residents were in poverty in 2019. Older residents (those 65 and over) are more likely to be in poverty than other age groups. Poverty rates also vary by race and ethnicity; most notably, Black and African American residents experience poverty at...

sfgov.org

 

[Ogre]

Would this incentive help increase EV sales over ICE? If the answer is yes, then the incentive makes sense, and it's somewhat irrelevant whether it benefits the automaker or the buyer.

Do you consider PHEVs ICE vehicles or EVs?

The house version seems to reward Ford/ GM PHEVs purchases more than Tesla BEVs.

IMO that makes no sense at all.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Would this incentive help increase EV sales over ICE? If the answer is yes, then the incentive makes sense, and it's somewhat irrelevant whether it benefits the automaker or the buyer.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I'm in the middle class in SoCal and while I can afford a Model Y, I still really hope the EV incentives pass. Just because people can "afford" a Tesla, doesn't mean that the EV incentive is just a handout. I feel like it would convince people on who are on the fence. It's an incentive, not a stimulus.

 

[Ogre]

I agree. I'm in the middle class in SoCal and while I can afford a Model Y, I still really hope the EV incentives pass. Just because people can "afford" a Tesla, doesn't mean that the EV incentive is just a handout. I feel like it would convince people on who are on the fence. It's an incentive, not a stimulus.

Personally, I don’t think the incentives are a great idea at this point.

Demand for Teslas is already off the hook. Tesla can’t keep up with demand. We’re spending billions incentivizing a thing people have already decided they need.

Non-Tesla, they are renewing a bunch of nonsense like huge incentives for PHEVs which makes zero sense at this time in the adoption curve.

They are dropping 10s of billions incentivizing people to buy cars which they already want to buy and cars which are only marginally “greener” than the pure ICE vehicles they will replace.

If they restructure it, it might make sense, but none of the current proposals make sense from a clean air/ environmental perspective.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Personally, I don’t think the incentives are a great idea at this point.

Demand for Teslas is already off the hook. Tesla can’t keep up with demand. We’re spending billions incentivizing a thing people have already decided they need.

Non-Tesla, they are renewing a bunch of nonsense like huge incentives for PHEVs which makes zero sense at this time in the adoption curve.

They are dropping 10s of billions incentivizing people to buy cars which they already want to buy and cars which are only marginally “greener” than the pure ICE vehicles they will replace.

If they restructure it, it might make sense, but none of the current proposals make sense from a clean air/ environmental perspective.

For most people I could see that. It would just be nice for someone who's just under the average $128k income Tesla owner but just higher than median income. I think if there for sure were no more incentives it would take someone like me a lot longer to decide and maybe not even decide to go with Tesla or possibly even EVs. I'd just have to keep driving my old land cruiser from OC to LA for work until something made more sense (maybe like a hybrid or a more efficient ICE vehicle that I like).

 

[Ogre]

For most people I could see that. It would just be nice for someone who's just under the average $128k income Tesla owner but just higher than median income. I think if there for sure were no more incentives it would take someone like me a lot longer to decide and maybe not even decide to go with Tesla. I'd just have to keep driving my old land cruiser from OC to LA for work until something made more sense (maybe like a hybrid or a more efficient ICE vehicle that I like).

If the goal is to help low income people, it should be capped at $150k or maybe less.

$8000 isn’t going to get lower income people into $50k cars.

 

[Unclepaul]

That is because our Govt is not using incentives to make cleaner air, but to garner additional votes from Unions

If the goal is cleaner air the incentives should be given to anyone that will purchase an EV instead of an ICE. Their personal income should not enter into it.

To help the US economy it should also be directed to those buying from companies that employee US workers. Not sure how a union worker will effectively produce cleaner air than a non-Union worker.

 

[TheRev]

I think it should be clear to anyone that the entire "build back better" plan is just a political stunt. Anyone with any kind of common sense knows that the goverment is horrible at spending money, and if for any crazy reason you disagree, please tell me any project where the first step on planning it's to come up with a number of $$$ to spend, and then we can figure how to spend it. That kind of backwards thinking would get any company or personal finances ruined. But hey thats the goverment for yall, both republicans and democrats will spend money like there is no tomorrow, so.... if I have no say on that (yes i know voting, but that only switches who spends the money) at least I want it to be on something that will help us move to a better future.