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Tesla ex demo stock?

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by kbf1981, May 3, 2018.

  1. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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    What's the view on tesla ex demo stock? I'm trying to work out if it's cheaper for me to buy personally something like this, with a big discount, but that cannot get the write down allowance, or something new.

    Inventory Search | Tesla
     
  2. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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    A new one would be 125k ish.... so 19% = 23k tax saving.

    But.... You'd pay bik on a new one via the business also.

    I know the best thing to do is ask my accountant but he's not in work at 9.30pm lol... and this is running through my mind.

    Do I buy a good second hand one personally like the above, run it for a couple years then change to a new one when bik is 2%, or just bide my time till good inventory stock becomes available.

    Right now there is no new inventory (delivery miles), that is red with white interior.
     
  3. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Well, in the US, demo cars still are considered "New" so they qualify for the federal and state tax credits as well as the discounts that Tesla offers. That in itself can make up for any flaws that may exist in the car. Your rules may be totally different there.
     
  4. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    Inventory cars are the same as new.

    Used ex-demo don't qualify for the 100% first year allowance, but they do qualify for writing down at 18%/year.

    I don't personally regard the 100% FYA to be that big a benefit - it's only really a cash-flow difference as you have to pay tax on the gain when you eventually re-sell the car. If that cash-flow advantage is significant in your business then it may weigh more heavily.

    I usually say that the BIK/personal trade-off is less favourable for used cars, but that's only because used cars are normally much cheaper than new and the BIK is based on list price. Buying nearly-new like this the price is not so far off list price, so company owned probably still wins - though not by so much.

    I suppose there is also the consideration that if your business doesn't currently run company cars then the extra admin hassle is another strike against the company route if the calculation comes out marginal. HMRC get the car wrong in my tax code every year and I have to complain and get it fixed...
     
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  5. sidmini

    sidmini Banned

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    I would have loved red and white seats, back when I ordered they only had grey, tan and black, went with black.

    Arg explained it well!
     
  6. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    3x things to note on that car if it bothers you

    solid roof
    no UHFS hifi
    19 inch wheels - okay they're good for ride, but I really wouldn't have them on a P100D as the power is too much for the sidewalls imho and felt squirly as heck under acceleration.when I compared 19/21's

    and though I love the red paint - dont expect smart repair type touch up guys to be able to touch in any scrapes as the paint is called multicoat for a reason-you're likely looking at a whole panel respray. White seats are also lovely right up to the point where you (inevitably) mark them then you're stuffed because Tesla dont replace the covers for $, just the entire seat for $$$

    That said, throw caution to the wind and get a P100D, seriously you wont regret it.
    The one time in life I treated myself and it is quite simply peerless.
     
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  7. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    I expect you know this, but no BiK on "Electric Fuel" - assuming you can charge at work

    Personally I think it is significant every time it comes up in conversation with accountant, but personal decision of course :)

    Accountant = "smooth everything out"

    Me = "cash-flow is king"

    The couple-of-grand p.a. from smoothing-it-out is useless to me ...20-grand I can do something useful with.
     
  8. DJP31

    DJP31 Active Member

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    I’d love to know the definition of ‘useful’ from

    A. Wifee
    B. Accountant
    C. @WannabeOwner
     
  9. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    D). Sadly nothing as intriguing as you are clearly thinking!

    Spend 20-grand on efficiency and improve the whole team. 20K would probably get me a 5% improvement for one team.

    Two easy routes:

    make a disruptive team member redundant ... :rolleyes:

    ... or build workflow software (we have the tools, but costs some money to implement a new software-workflow to replace existing old fashioned, non-scalable, processes).

    B. Pay him enough ... he's happy
    A. Not enough noughts ...
    C. ... once enough noughts available I'm happy too :)
     
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  10. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    My wife is an accountant and she advised me to buy my Tesla personally (it was a new one) rather than put it through the business. Obviously your situation might be a little different (I rarely do any actual business mileage for example), but I would just get your accountant to advise. I think there are pros and cons of both routes, but for me it would have worked out more expensive to put it through the business. She did the maths on it over 4 years and it wasn't working with the BIK over that period. It might change once BIK comes down again, as long as it stays down this time!
     
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  11. DJP31

    DJP31 Active Member

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    You were right! o_O
     
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  12. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    The current "Fat BiK" is painful ...

    Can't imagine why Chancellor didn't "fix" that once the short-term daftness became known. Ho!Hum!
     
  13. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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    Just thinking about the the company car vs. personal car thing on a P100D... or any P car.

    Company route:
    New one = £130k
    You'd pay a minimum of £8k personal BIK on it for the next 2 yrs
    But you'd save £23k corp tax (19%) this year.
    Company would also pay upkeep and insurance - my insurance would be £1500 per year on a first look, I'm sure I can get it cheaper, but first look is £1500 per year. Tyres are nothing as I'm guessing you get 20k+ miles out of them so barely worth thinking about. Servicing is probably £300 per year?

    Lets say you sell it in 4 years to yourself, at £50k (based on WBAC or similar), that's £9.5k tax on the 50k when you sell it. So total costs are:

    - 130k+8k
    - minus £23k
    - Plus 9.5k
    = £124.5k.... before we look at the 2.5% APR and higher GFV Tesla give you (which reduces cost of finance)

    However for a personal one.... like the one above:

    2017 model = £98k
    No BIK as buying personally
    You'd save £30k on cost of a new one, for putting up with 1yr old and 8k miles.
    You'd pay about £1000 per month = another £12k per year coming out as either dividends or income from the business, taxed at no more than 26% (26% if you took out £130k from the biz per year, if you took 100k it'd be 19%) = Dividend Calculator - How much tax will you pay? - Contract Eye

    So the second hand one, via personal purchase, looks like it's cheaper - given the BIK for the next 2 years is so high, you'd have to take out a whopping amount of additional income (more than the finance costs), to make the personal tax from income / dividends, equal the BIK?

    So if you're the sole owner of a limited company.... it's cheaper personally unless you are doing mega business miles? I'd be doing 8k per year probably as we've a few cars in the household.

    Makes no sense to buy one as cash as you'd have to take out soooooo much money, taxed at such a high rate, which costs way more than just sticking it on Tesla's 2.5% APR finance.
     
  14. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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    Based on the above, would this be the most sensible route if you wanted a P car now?

    1) Buy a good second hand one, stick it on low APR finance with good GFV. Do this personally.
    2) In 2.5 yrs time, swap it in with Tesla for a new P130D and get the 2% BIK. Do this via the business.

    As the best value way to get into a P car, the above seems to make sense?
     
  15. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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  16. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    I've surprised myself that I got nearly 40,000 miles out of mine. Yes some Hooning about, but 90% of my mileage is motorway cruising ...

    I think they were £400 each to replace, so 400 x 4 / 40000 = 4p per mile - not exactly "nothing" (10,000 miles p.a. = £400 on tyres)

    Company has paid more corporation tax (because it didn't have the write-off of the vehicle). Relevant for an owner-manager presumably ...

    (Sorry if you already factored that in, this isn't my subject!)

    Even if you are doing mega business miles: as a self-owned car you could charge business miles to the company at normal AA rates In terms of Fuel (assuming tyres and insurance would be same-as whatever else you might drive):

    30 MPG Petrol @ 1.20 / L = 18p / mile

    333 wH/mile (3 miles per kWh) @ £0.08 per kWh (e.g. E7) then 2.7p/mile cost to you

    If you can charge at work then company can pay for that as a perk, with no BIK. Assuming you charge at work 5 days a week, and you drive same distance at weekends as weekday commute, that's 5/7ths paid for at work so your per mile cost is now 0.8p/mile ... although it might actually pan out that you charge at work for all your company mileage, which is during the week, and your weekend mileage is "almost nothing" and if you visit Rellies you'd be stopping, for free, at a Supercharger anyway ... or using their 13AMP plug when you get there ...

    These are figures taken from ABPR for a "warm day", which i think are good enough for real-world range assumption:

    MS75D 324 Wh/mile, Range 203 (best to deduct e.g. 20 miles "buffer")
    MS100D 324 Wh/mile, Range 274
    MS P100D 340 Wh/mile, Range 260

    For my MS P90D ABRP gives 340 Wh/mile, Range 217, (I think my actual real world range is 220 miles)

    So I would say a P90 is 15% less range than a P100, and not 25% less. That's with "small wheels", the bigger wheels will eat range (maybe as much as 20%, in either car)

    Unless you can actually avoid a recharging stop, on a journey, in a 100 then its not worth worrying about. In terms of extra charging time its "tiny". That's on the basis that you already had to turn off the motorway, at the same location, to charge in a 100 anyway - it takes 5 minutes to get off the road, and back on again. You need to aim to charge within the optimum range which is 10% to 70%, and that's if you are on a long trip. In UK its more likely you are only charging "part of that" so you have enough to reach destination, not enough to "fill the tank".

    10% to 70% is the same charging time in all models; the P90 will gain 132 miles, the P100 will gain 156 miles

    On any journey above 200 (allowing 20 miles for "spare") the P90 has to charge, and up to 240 miles the P100 does not need to charge

    If your journey is, say, 300 miles and you Supercharge at 200 miles, and you want to arrive with 20 miles spare

    The P90 is at 10% and has 20 left, and needs to gain 100 miles = add 45% = 22.5 minutes
    The P100 is at 26% and has 60 left and needs to gain 60 miles (40 for journey, 20 for "spare") = add 23% = 11.5 minutes

    So on a 300 mile journey you save 10 minutes. Proportionately less for any journey between 240 and 300 miles.

    Driving across France the savings are more significant
     
  17. sidmini

    sidmini Banned

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    90 is actually a 81 kwh usable battery and 100 is slight over 100 kwh battery!
     
  18. kbf1981

    kbf1981 Member

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    What's a P85 or a 75 in which case?

    That's to all the replies. They've been very helpful!
     
  19. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    I don't understand your comparison, since you are comparing two different cars. But the "mega business miles" actually works the other way around - it favours personal ownership (since you can pay yourself tax-free mileage allowance for business miles in a personal car, while business miles in a company car make no difference to the figures).
     
  20. sidmini

    sidmini Banned

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    Here are the real battery capacities below, the model name is really just a marketing name and not accurate to the actual battery size unfortunately.
    • Original 60 – ~61 kWh total capacity, ~58.5 kWh usable.
    • 85/P85/85D/P85D – ~81.5 kWh total capacity, ~77.5 kWh usable
    • 90D/P90D – ~85.8 kWh total capacity, 81.8 kWh usable
    • Original 70 – ~71.2 kWh total capacity, 68.8 kWh usable
    • 75/75D – 75 kWh total capacity, 72.6 kWh usable
    • Software limited 60/60D – 62.4 kWh usable
    • Software limited 70/70D – 65.9 kWh usable
     
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