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Tesla Files Federal Suit in Michigan's Western District

Bgarret

Model 3 ownin' Michigan scofflaw
Supporting Member
May 10, 2013
1,175
3,865
Michigan
Do you have a guest room I could use? I may have to attend some of the hearings :)
Absolutely. I can probably find rooms for many if we need them. Would be nice if something happened this fall - you could take in Art Prize to boot. I will have my legal counsel (wife) review the document and see what she thinks.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,791
8,030
Maine
What Tesla _really_ needs from this is the lifting of the ban on service centers. I think that's a more likely win than forcing a change in law on dealerships.
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,628
29,935
Read the case law, it will dramatically change your position on the matter:

FindLaw's United States Sixth Circuit case and opinions.

"Courts have repeatedly recognized that protecting a discrete interest group from economic competition is not a legitimate governmental purpose."
I have already read that. The clear implication is that the various States auto dealer franchising laws do violate the dormant Commerce clause among other constitutional protections. Frankly, nobody has effectively tried to challenge this until now despite the FTC position being crystal clear. I have read the entire Tesla petition. It is succinct, clear and definitive. I really want to be in the courtroom. Does anybody know when and where this will be? I just might come! This rivals the NTSB lithium batteries in transport hearing for my interest.
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,693
1,959
Teller County CO
This is going all the way to SCOTUS... There is no way either side isn't going to appeal any decision all the way up the ladder... Hopefully SCOTUS follows established case law on this, as already noted in this thread, and strikes down all of this crap nationally...

Jeff
 
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jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,628
29,935
This is going all the way to SCOTUS... There is no way either side isn't going to appeal any decision all the way up the ladder... Hopefully SCOTUS follows established case law on this, as already noted in this thread, and strikes down all of this crap nationally...

Jeff
Of course it is. And now it depends on the last court prior to reaching the Supremes. Or maybe not, I'll wager somebody a modest sum, say, a free Supercharger session (assuming the winner has an S or an X), that there might actually be close to unanimous agreement to block these antiquated State laws. After all it is not possible to argue any permissible benefit with a straight face, and this really is not a conventional partisan issue.
 

Joel

Active Member
Mar 24, 2011
1,266
274
Michigan
Of course it is. And now it depends on the last court prior to reaching the Supremes. Or maybe not, I'll wager somebody a modest sum, say, a free Supercharger session (assuming the winner has an S or an X), that there might actually be close to unanimous agreement to block these antiquated State laws. After all it is not possible to argue any permissible benefit with a straight face, and this really is not a conventional partisan issue.

You'll have a tough time finding a taker on this forum.

I can't wait to hear the "legitimate purposes" the Dealers will attempt to advance:

-Youth league sponsorships
-Safety
-Large Employer
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,693
1,959
Teller County CO
What I find absolutely fascinating is the complete disregard for their own future... By "their" I mean the NADA and all of their members... By fighting Tesla the way they have, they're not only going to loose nationally thus opening the door to Tesla entirely but they're also going to be opening the door to allowing Chevy, Ford, etc... to open their own company stores should they choose to do so...

It's so horribly short sighted of them to fight Tesla on this as, in the end, when Tesla eventually wins the decision will also allow for other automakers to do the same thing and there's no reason to think they wouldn't...

Whoever decided to fight Tesla on this is a really short sighted individual(s)...

Jeff
 
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MichFin

Member
May 8, 2015
303
61
Detroit, MI
[QUOTE="Tesla makes some cogent arguments. We'll see. They chose wisely, focussing on the "Midnight Amendment" rather than the whole. /QUOTE]
I really feel that adding the it's to the original law will come to bite them in the butt. It shows clear intent to change the original law to block Tesla.
 
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MichFin

Member
May 8, 2015
303
61
Detroit, MI
It's so horribly short sighted of them to fight Tesla on this as, in the end, when Tesla eventually wins the decision will also allow for other automakers to do the same thing and there's no reason to think they wouldn't...
/QUOTE]

It's going to be up to Tesla if they want to push this because Michigan will easily cave and give them some sort of settlement. The down side for NADA is way too big. Tesla may feel like pushing it all the way to set a precedent for other states.
 
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tinm

2020 Model S LR+ Owner
May 3, 2015
2,463
11,890
New Mexico, USA
[QUOTE="Tesla makes some cogent arguments. We'll see. They chose wisely, focussing on the "Midnight Amendment" rather than the whole. /QUOTE]
I really feel that adding the it's to the original law will come to bite them in the butt. It shows clear intent to change the original law to block Tesla.

Speaking of "clear intent," I'm surprised the lawsuit does not mention the fact that the CEO of GM made a snarky public remark about the Model 3 vs its Chevy Bolt (at the UNVEILING of the Bolt, to boot!), saying "Unlike some EV customers, Bolt customers don’t have to drive to another state to buy or service an EV", in other words, ha ha ha isn't it a shame that a poor little Model 3 owner will have to drive somewhere out-of-state to buy and service the car, since Tesla has no stores or service centers in Michigan, poor wittle companee, isn't that too bad, etc. I know Tesla has already brought up this point in various presentations including the famous one to the FTC in January 2016. I suppose since GM isn't a defendant in this case, it was probably decided to save that GM quote for the courtroom...
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,650
8,483
Austin, TX
What I find absolutely fascinating is the complete disregard for their own future... By "their" I mean the NADA and all of their members... By fighting Tesla the way they have, they're not only going to loose nationally thus opening the door to Tesla entirely but they're also going to be opening the door to allowing Chevy, Ford, etc... to open their own company stores should they choose to do so...

It's so horribly short sighted of them to fight Tesla on this as, in the end, when Tesla eventually wins the decision will also allow for other automakers to do the same thing and there's no reason to think they wouldn't...

Whoever decided to fight Tesla on this is a really short sighted individual(s)...

Jeff
They already can in many states including the largest auto market of California but have decided not to. A court decision allowing them to elsewhere wouldn't change that.
 

Clomer

Member
May 21, 2014
91
76
Colorado Springs
This was Tesla's plan all along - they applied for the dealership license knowing full well that it would be denied. What it did, though, was give them standing to sue. It is likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court, and a victory would mean that they could sell unimpeded in all 50 states.

Unfortunately, lawsuits of that scale take a long time. It will probably be years before it is definitively decided. It won't be on time for the Model 3 launch.
 

brucet999

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
2,695
1,502
Huntington Beach, CA
[QUOTE="Tesla makes some cogent arguments. We'll see. They chose wisely, focussing on the "Midnight Amendment" rather than the whole. /QUOTE]
I really feel that adding the it's to the original law will come to bite them in the butt. It shows clear intent to change the original law to block Tesla.

What you mean, I presume, is that amending the original law to DELETE the word "its" in reference to franchised dealers will bite them in the butt.
 
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neroden

Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan
Apr 25, 2011
14,676
62,629
Ithaca, NY, USA
Tesla *should* win this case. I believe Tesla will lose, because I believe they have not got lawyers competent to do this.

This is a badly written complaint. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm a bit of a connoisseur of legal documents, and this is not well-written. There's a lot of political grandstanding; unless they get a very particular sort of judge, that won't go over well. There really should be a short section with legal citations for the proposition that it's not constitutional to pass or enforce laws which serve no legitimate public purpose.

(There is a tradition of "deference to the legislature" so it's important to overcome that.)
 
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