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Tesla FSD Beta Release 10.5 2021.36.8.7

When I use FSD Beta, I don't count disengagements, I see how far I can drive from my house before my wife will scream or tell me to turn it off. Is 10.5 an improvement? So far no. It still slams on the brakes about 25 back from a stop sign, then inches forward and makes the most awkward right turn.
Some people call that the "WAF" or wife acceptance factor. :p
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
14,399
36,350
Seattle, WA
Did another 15 minute drive around town. 9 out of 10 turns are unacceptable. Hesitates too long and then pulls out in front of approaching traffic. Wheel so erratic you can't possibly keep the required light torque. Something is drastically amiss.
Camera recalibration ?

Are these with unprotected turns ? There are lots of videos you can watch to see how it behaves for others.
 
Did another 15 minute drive around town. 9 out of 10 turns are unacceptable. Hesitates too long and then pulls out in front of approaching traffic. Wheel so erratic you can't possibly keep the required light torque. Something is drastically amiss.
I got the update late last week and have just started experimenting with it. My experience matches yours - I liken it to driving with a 15 year old that just got their permit. It eventually gets the turn but is very hesitant and takes forever. This afternoon I goosed it along by pressing the accelerator.

It's an improvement in that it can actually drive on roads without lines, handle stoplights and stop signs on its own and manage turns on its own but it's definitely still beta. Getting a lot of phantom braking, too - have to make sure no one else is in the car with me, otherwise they freak out.
 
Camera recalibration ?

Are these with unprotected turns ? There are lots of videos you can watch to see how it behaves for others.
Yes, unprotected but simple. It has made more complex turns at multilaned protected intersections. The phantom speed control/braking is sporadically frequent and doesn't occur 1/10 as much when FSD toggle is off. I've mentioned before my concern that the rapid back and forth wheel jerking is not something the electric steering drive belt was designed for. I'll wait for the next update. Also, EAP/NOA has been able to drive on unmarked roads for about 2 years very well. You only needed a center stripe and 18 mph to engage it and no markings after engagement. We have a winding 2 1/2 mile barely 2 lane rural road that it drove on well and passed oncoming vehicles smoothly. On FSD it stalled on that road when that was attempted. Big regression.
 
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FSD is map aware - so, sounds like a map problem.
EAP/NOA drove on the right side of unmarked roads and did a good smooth job of passing oncoming traffic. FSD drives closer to the middle I've read because early beta testers complained about performance with roads contaminated by leaves and other items. With oncoming traffic, FSD slowed, started to jerkily move to the right and stopped dead as the vehicle passed. It was so erratic I disconnected at about the passing moment.
The car does not identify the driving surface using gps or maps, only video. It will drive on unmarked roads that are not mapped.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
14,399
36,350
Seattle, WA
EAP/NOA drove on the right side of unmarked roads and did a good smooth job of passing oncoming traffic. FSD drives closer to the middle I've read because early beta testers complained about performance with roads contaminated by leaves and other items. With oncoming traffic, FSD slowed, started to jerkily move to the right and stopped dead as the vehicle passed. It was so erratic I disconnected at about the passing moment.
The car does not identify the driving surface using gps or maps, only video. It will drive on unmarked roads that are not mapped.
Lot of this has been discussed at length in the other thread. Check it out.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
14,399
36,350
Seattle, WA
Which thread?

ps : Also ...

 
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I have used 10.5 heavily for the last week, including a 5 hour round-trip Turkey Day. Certainly there are several areas for improvement, but it is noticeably better than 10.4. Here what I noticed, good and bad.

Car is much more confident in general, with respect to lane changes and turns, however:
  1. It does not signal when it should (very consistent). Like, if you need to make a lane change to put you in a turning lane, the car only puts on the indicators when you're in that lane, ready to turn. In Ohio you can be ticketed for failing to indicate before ANY lane change.
  2. Unprotected left turns work much better for me, but right turns on red are troublesome. The car will creep up like it should, but often stops part way into the turn. About 50% of the time I have to nudge it with the accelerator. Right turns on green are very good.
Navigation based issues:
  1. The car insists on lane changes that are not needed too often. Many surface road trips on a 4/5 lane road with a right turn in the destination, the car will leave the right lane, only to indicate on the screen "an upcoming lane change" to return to the lane it just surrendered. Similarly, even though the car is in the correct lane to make a left turn in a few miles, it will move itself to the right lane, only to need to move back the left lane to eventually turn. In both cases I'm talking about a driving on roads with only the destination turn, otherwise a straight road.
  2. During my road trip while highway driving, several times the car refused to stay in the right lane. It literally made lane changes into the passing lane. If I used the turn signal to depart the passing lane, it would move itself back after a quarter mile. Had to disable Autopilot for it to stop doing that.
  3. Frustratingly (but consistent with NoA), while driving in the left lane with a car merging onto the highway from the right, the car wants to merge right and basically block the other car.
Poor weather limited Autopilot:
  1. In heavy rain the car indicated that "FSD was disabled," or "Limited Autopilot." This is somewhat understandable, but the Auto-wipers didn't think much of the rain, as they were moving like they were set on "intermittent."
  2. In steady but not heavy rain, while highway driving, the car indicated "Limited Autopilot left front camera XXXX" and told me to take over. Again the auto-wipers weren't moving too hard. Driving a few miles longer the rain let up, and I was able to use FSD again without issue.
I'm confident that there will be improvements,, so I'm not upset about any of the above. However, the whole "not signaling before changing lanes" is something I'm really surprised about in version 10 point anything.
 

Mardak

Active Member
Oct 13, 2018
1,273
2,678
USA
The car insists on lane changes that are not needed too often. Many surface road trips on a 4/5 lane road with a right turn in the destination, the car will leave the right lane, only to indicate on the screen "an upcoming lane change" to return to the lane it just surrendered
Do you remember which streets and direction/intersections this happens and is it consistent? If so, if you don't mind sharing the locations, I'm curious in tracking down what map data might be causing this. My guess is FSD Beta believes there's only 1 lane ahead to "go straight," so it switches left out of what it believes is a right-turn only lane.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
14,399
36,350
Seattle, WA
The car insists on lane changes that are not needed too often.
What mode are you on - Chill/Std/Aggressive ?

Today on Chill mode on my drive FSD behaved surprisingly well. If the vehicle in the front is slow - it used to try changing lanes, even if the turn is just 1/2 mile away. Today on a 40 mph road, it didn't try to change even when the vehicle was doing 25 mph. I kept thinking its going to try to change anytime now - but it didn't. On 10.4 and below, it always tried to change at the slightest slowdown.
 

Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
2,213
4,149
Utah
What mode are you on - Chill/Std/Aggressive ?

Today on Chill mode on my drive FSD behaved surprisingly well. If the vehicle in the front is slow - it used to try changing lanes, even if the turn is just 1/2 mile away. Today on a 40 mph road, it didn't try to change even when the vehicle was doing 25 mph. I kept thinking its going to try to change anytime now - but it didn't. On 10.4 and below, it always tried to change at the slightest slowdown.
I'll have to give that a shot, as all the unnecessary lane changes drive me nuts.

I haven't used anything other than Standard so far.
 
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Do you remember which streets and direction/intersections this happens and is it consistent? If so, if you don't mind sharing the locations, I'm curious in tracking down what map data might be causing this. My guess is FSD Beta believes there's only 1 lane ahead to "go straight," so it switches left out of what it believes is a right-turn only lane.

Here is basically the route I was driving where it departed the right lane, just before Burger King, only to return 50 feet later. Not sure if you can tell, but Gemini Parkway is 4/5 lanes in it's entirety.
 
What mode are you on - Chill/Std/Aggressive ?

Today on Chill mode on my drive FSD behaved surprisingly well. If the vehicle in the front is slow - it used to try changing lanes, even if the turn is just 1/2 mile away. Today on a 40 mph road, it didn't try to change even when the vehicle was doing 25 mph. I kept thinking its going to try to change anytime now - but it didn't. On 10.4 and below, it always tried to change at the slightest slowdown.
On my Thanksgiving road trip I was on the highway in Chill mode. When I was reporting my issues on the surface streets, I was in Standard mode. In both cases my Passing setting is Average.

I can say with confidence that during the highway driving in question, there were no cars that needed passing. However with the surface street issue, I could see an argument for the car initiating a pass, then realizing it needed to turn soon. I was behind traffic that was a bit slower than the speed limit, because of someone else making a right turn ahead.
 

Mardak

Active Member
Oct 13, 2018
1,273
2,678
USA
Here is basically the route I was driving where it departed the right lane, just before Burger King, only to return 50 feet later
Thanks. Looks like OSM has `lanes=4` for that 2-way section of Gemini next to Burger King but does not indicate how many lanes are for each direction, so it's quite possible that FSD Beta conservatively assumes there's only 1 lane. Way: ‪Gemini Place‬ (‪751581206‬) | OpenStreetMap More to the east closer to I71, some map data does draw the road as 2 separate 1-way segments, so maybe FSD Beta does not get confused about how many lanes are available for that direction of travel.

gemini 2-way.png


To be clear, does the on screen message say to "follow route" or "faster lane" when switching from the right lane to the left?
 
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Thanks. Looks like OSM has `lanes=4` for that 2-way section of Gemini next to Burger King but does not indicate how many lanes are for each direction, so it's quite possible that FSD Beta conservatively assumes there's only 1 lane. Way: ‪Gemini Place‬ (‪751581206‬) | OpenStreetMap More to the east closer to I71, some map data does draw the road as 2 separate 1-way segments, so maybe FSD Beta does not get confused about how many lanes are available for that direction of travel.

View attachment 739148

To be clear, does the on screen message say to "follow route" or "faster lane" when switching from the right lane to the left?
Interesting analysis.

I don't remember seeing "faster lane," but honestly I was more concerned with returning to the right lane so I wouldn't get pinched out before my turn. I will be traveling this route again tomorrow, so I'll check.
 
It is for that reason that I typically will not use it if someone is too close behind me.
This is one of the reasons why a tailgater takes the joy out of running FSD. I now have to keep my foot hovering over the accelerator in case of a phantom brake. When I first drove my Y the car did a phantom brake & I thought nothing about it until another car cut in front of me then came to a complete stop on a curve in the highway. He then looked into his left side rearview mirror smiling taking pleasure in the fact that he had executed revenge on me for a brake check. It's idiots like this that drain the pleasure of driving AP or not.
 

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