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  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #27 is available now with topics time-stamped. We discussed: Consolidation in LiDAR manufacturers; Volvo EX90 shipping with LiDAR; FSD Beta Full Release in N.A.; FSD detecting autopilot cheats, Gwen Shotwell directly overseeing SpaceX Starship; and more. You can watch it now on YouTube. We should have it published to podcast networks shortly.

Tesla FSD is an absolute game changer (for me), I can't believe this is real! Greetings from Toronto!

I'm in the Toronto area, just got FSD enabled on Monday, and wow! I wanted to share my perspective and experience because I totally realize the wide range of opinions on FSD ranging from hating it to loving it, but I have to say I am absolutely blown away.

I have a 50km commute each way, every day of the week. Since the day I got my M3 SR+ I have been using autopilot extensively (including through the entire winter). It totally changed my life, making my commute which is about 75% highway and 25% city streets an absolute breeze. In my case, in all honesty, if development of AP/FSD ended there, I would have been quite happy. It made a significant enough impact on my life in terms of being relaxed and at least feeling quite a bit safer. So with that perspective, anything FSD would bring in addition would just have been a cherry on top.

Now that I am on day 3 of FSD, I am truly stunned. I haven't had to intervene (only once in the first minute because I was nervous when it first took off from my garage) and the confidence, precision, and human-like way it handles my commute (including going up and down Yonge and random side streets during morning/evening rush hours) is far beyond impressive. The car has already handled some really strange situations far too well, situations where I have felt 100% certain that there's no way it would handle it. When I see it handle the situations with zero hesitations, I am left audibly cheering sitting alone in the car lol It feels like I'm cheating, it feels like this is far too great a technological leap too quickly (I realize how silly this might sound given how often Elon's timelines shift).

I am truly thankful to have the financial ability to afford a Tesla, to own a significant number of shares, and to be one of the first people to experience this life-changing technology. I haven't ever felt anything like this, and realizing that this is just the beginning and this is a beta product (and it only just launched in Canada!) is mind-boggling. I'm sure over the coming days and weeks I'll experience edge cases, but so far it has been flawless.

The only thing I wish it handled better was lanes ending on non-highway roads. It still does fine, but doesn't seem to realize the lane is ending soon enough so it has to stop and wait sometimes. Nothing unsafe, but that's the only "non-human-like" approach to it driving that I've experienced.

Anyway, I realize everyone's experiences will be different, but I wanted to share my extremely positive one. What a time to be alive, seeing this tech and its pace of development makes me feel hopeful about the future. Once the tech is further perfected and goes mainstream, life will never be the same.

Sorry if I sound way too excited and optimistic, but it's genuinely how I feel :)
 

Yelobird

Active Member
Aug 24, 2020
1,221
1,646
Illinois
Good on you! I share the same view point and experience. I focus on the hundreds of things it does well vs the 1 or 2 things it could do better. It’s not perfect but to imagine years ago that I would be sitting in a car while it took over is honestly mind blowing. Some really intelligent people out there, can’t wait to see how far we get in the future.
 

Mardak

Active Member
Oct 13, 2018
1,644
3,661
USA
situations where I have felt 100% certain that there's no way it would handle it. When I see it handle the situations with zero hesitations
FSD Beta will indeed do some impressive maneuvers with confidence, but the perception could be quite wrong with high confidence. A very simple example is going straight through an intersection where FSD Beta very confidently shifts left towards oncoming traffic's left turn lane even though there's a clear view. A different situation with poor side visibility resulted in FSD Beta confidently entering an unprotected intersection then realizing there's cross traffic from the right, so it correctly stopped and fortunately there was no traffic coming from the left.

So overall enjoy but don't get tricked by the confidence.
 
it's amazing till it makes one mistake, and it only takes one small mistake for the house of cards to fall. i'm not being hyperbolic , i love Autopilot, it's changed my commuting life forever, but you have to babysit FSD. it would be acceptable if it was just slow, but it will do the dumbest *sugar* like pull into an oncoming lane believing it's turn lane, use coned off arears at turn lanes, stop dead during a right hand turn when no one is there. it's SPECTACULAR at lane keeping, everything else is not to be trusted. again, it only takes 1 incident during a drive to require you take over total control, and that's just not good enough for most people,

i believe it will get better, and it will work long term, but i think it's flat irresponsible for ANYONE to say it's trustworthy, or competent , in it's current stage. people like that Dirty Tesla guy are doing a disservice to the public by giving FSD a pass every time it makes a mistake, or barely gets something right, you're misleading people.
 
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Ramphex

Limit Pusher
Supporting Member
Jun 9, 2021
2,061
4,919
Tampa Bay Area
I don’t know how you feel so much more relaxed. Driving with FSD is strenuous because it requires more effort to supervise its driving, and make sure I’m ready to react within split seconds of it making a mistake, than the effort it would take for me to drive myself. Don’t let it fool you and don’t get too relaxed - would not want to see you get hurt.

It definitely has potential though.
 
Im guessing you dont live near streetcars..


Thank goodness, no. I commute right to the edge of downtown. I despise streetcars with a passion, I am not surprised at all that FSD isn't optimized for them. They are horrible in every conceivable way compared to buses, and I used them to commute for 10 years not too long ago. Toronto's public transit system is a total joke, every aspect of it. Did my tour for 15 years in the system and will never look back.

Sorry for the rant lol I really feel sorry for people (like myself only 3 years ago) who cannot afford to travel in personal vehicles, especially luxurious ones like Teslas.
 
it's amazing till it makes one mistake, and it only takes one small mistake for the house of cards to fall. i'm not being hyperbolic , i love Autopilot, it's changed my commuting life forever, but you have to babysit FSD. it would be acceptable if it was just slow, but it will do the dumbest *sugar* like pull into an oncoming lane believing it's turn lane, use coned off arears at turn lanes, stop dead during a right hand turn when no one is there. it's SPECTACULAR at lane keeping, everything else is not to be trusted. again, it only takes 1 incident during a drive to require you take over total control, and that's just not good enough for most people,

i believe it will get better, and it will work long term, but i think it's flat irresponsible for ANYONE to say it's trustworthy, or competent , in it's current stage. people like that Dirty Tesla guy are doing a disservice to the public by giving FSD a pass every time it makes a mistake, or barely gets something right, you're misleading people.

I agree with everything you said. I am extremely careful, and I realize it only takes one incident as you say. Thanks for posting this critically important warning, one cannot be reminded of this enough.
 
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I don’t know how you feel so much more relaxed. Driving with FSD is strenuous because it requires more effort to supervise its driving, and make sure I’m ready to react within split seconds of it making a mistake, than the effort it would take for me to drive myself. Don’t let it fool you and don’t get too relaxed - would not want to see you get hurt.

It definitely has potential though.

Thanks, I'm going to be watching how it functions extremely closely for the next few weeks.

I wouldn't say I'm relaxed. Calm is probably a better word. I fly planes, scuba, ride motorcycles, etc. a good amount, which are similarly high risk. I'm kind of used to the feeling of hyper awareness but calm at the same time. Not sure how to explain it!
 

Ramphex

Limit Pusher
Supporting Member
Jun 9, 2021
2,061
4,919
Tampa Bay Area
Thanks, I'm going to be watching how it functions extremely closely for the next few weeks.

I wouldn't say I'm relaxed. Calm is probably a better word. I fly planes, scuba, ride motorcycles, etc. a good amount, which are similarly high risk. I'm kind of used to the feeling of hyper awareness but calm at the same time. Not sure how to explain it!
I do the same, but none of those tasks have a computer do random whacky unexpected things, like pop across a double yellow to pass a car in front of you at a red light, or slam the brakes at a flashing yellow light making the car behind you lock up their brakes to not rear end you (if they’re paying attention).

I’ve asked Elon on Twitter on multiple occasions for a Verbose Mode toggle for FSD, but I’m sure with the amount of stuff he gets on there, he probably never saw it. I think it would be great to see a verbal output of what the car is thinking when it’s performing tasks.
 
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I do the same, but none of those tasks have a computer do random whacky unexpected things, like pop across a double yellow to pass a car in front of you at a red light, or slam the brakes at a flashing yellow light making the car behind you lock up their brakes to not rear end you (if they’re paying attention).

I’ve asked Elon on Twitter on multiple occasions for a Verbose Mode toggle for FSD, but I’m sure with the amount of stuff he gets on there, he probably never saw it. I think it would be great to see a verbal output of what the car is thinking when it’s performing tasks.

True, even though the motorcycle doesn't have a mind of its own the environment around it does. The number of clueless drivers on their phones jumping through lanes without signalling is ... bad.

But I hear you. I haven't had FSD beta do very many questionable things, but it certainly has. Nothing unsafe yet, but odd things here and there for sure. Like jumping into another lane for no apparent reason other than it just starting going from a one lane to two lane road only to realize it's a left turning lane, and having to switch back. Again, nothing unsafe - yet.

Verbose mode would be awesome. I'd really love to better understand what the car is thinking, as I think it would make me an even better/safer user of FSD. It's already great though, the full screen visualiztion is incredible.
 
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Wound not be fun to have a positive appreciation thread without the posse of negative swarming in to rain on your parade…

Lol ya, but I think it's a good thing overall. The net effect of the negativity and skepticism, I believe, will be a better end product and safer drivers. I think it's justified too - this technology seems to be pushing the absolute limits, if not beyond already, of extremely advanced technology in the hands of regular consumers (with serious consequences if it fails).

I'm a user of it now and still skeptical that something so revolutionary actually exists and is totally usable. Can't even imagine what non-FSD owners, let alone non-Tesla owners, perceive FSD to be.
 

Itsuo-DC

Member
Supporting Member
Nov 26, 2018
318
214
Washington, DC
I am truly thankful to have the financial ability to afford a Tesla, to own a significant number of shares, and to be one of the first people to experience this life-changing technology. I haven't ever felt anything like this, and realizing that this is just the beginning and this is a beta product (and it only just launched in Canada!) is mind-boggling. I'm sure over the coming days and weeks I'll experience edge cases, but so far it has been flawless.

I agree with your sentiments and also think it must be incredible for you to be introduced to the Beta this far along in its development.

I also feel the same appreciation on being able to afford the car/FSD and experience the technology. My only warning is that over time I inadvertently began to let the vehicle teach me what it can do and I began to be more and more permissive in close-calls (in lower risk situations) as I learned that it could complete maneuvers at speed or proximity tolerances that were past my comfort zone because it often figured things out if I just gave it more leeway.

Eventually, while turning left through an intersection of a divided highway the rear/left wheel hit the tall decorative stone curb/divider and it cracked the lip on the rim. It was my fault in the end and I'll be fine but needles to say lesson learned.

I'm sure you'll be fine but I share that for the awareness of others.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
854
964
Sunnyvale, CA
FSD experiences vary greatly. I can't get it go go a mile (except on a straight road without lights or stop signs) without a mistake.

However, understand that to be a "full self driving" car it needs to drive the same distance most people drive in their entire life without making a mistake that would cause a significant accident. Driving for 10 minutes, or an hour, or a day, or a week, or a year without incident means almost nothing. Well, a year starts to mean something, I guess. It would mean 2% of the way there! To quote Elon Musk,

Don't get the wrong impression, says this Toronto native. And don't listen to the guy who went to Queen's who says it will be at this level "this year" for the past 6 years.
 
Does FSD slow down for railroad tracks

I cross them twice on my commute, it doesn't seem to slow down (nor do I when I drive manually). It will definitely sop when there's an actual train though lol

The only thing that's getting me is that the car has no appreciation of lane endings. It's definitely not seeing the sign, which is fine at this stage, but as the lane gets narrower, it doesn't even signal to move over. It just drifts in, but if there's a car next to it, it needs to stop and wait or it sort of panics. I used to let it do what it wanted but now I'm forcing a disengagement so that if my data is going somewhere, whether its into training data or to the eyes of an actual human, something/someone realizes that this needs improvement.

I'm also noticing that while acceptable, night driving on FSD is noticably worse. At least on very busy city streets with chaotic traffic and tricky situations. In the day time, it's super confident. Even mildly non-crazy city streets at night are perfect, still.

I'm so excited to see improvements come in. I'm basically 99.9% on FSD right now other than parking lots where I let it try every time but it chokes mostly. I'm hoping my driving data helps Tesla.
 
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