Tesla gave my car away to someone else

[Phlier]

I recall @Phlier had some of his own pre-delivery issues and to hear him describe himself as a self-professed fanboi says a lot. Few owners on here would buy anything else.

Yup, the purchasing experience wasn't good. But I have no plans to ever own a different brand now.

 

[jonquiljo]

100% agree and I probably too will forget about all of this If I wait It out - and I think I mentioned it in the post you quoted. But yes, the younger -ish consumers want this product for what it is and because of what it can do. The average joe middle aged car buyer will not tolerate this. If you tell him he has to wait 2 months for a car and he needs to Shuttle kids to soccer practice and get to work, he’s going to move on to some other car or another electric option when they flood the market eventually

it’s funny - the $100 fee to reserve will initially bottleneck production for a few months, but when they start to deliver , it Should assuage the demand as people drop their purchases and others swoop in to match like or Identical vehicles. Unfortunately we won’t get the benefit of that for a while

Don't forget the "older" (not old!) potential customers like me. Actually, it has nothing to do with age. Young, middle aged, or older - the phenomenon is the same. There are a certain group of people (mostly like ourselves) that are so interested in what Tesla has to offer, that we are willing to deal with Tesla. So most of us at this forum will suffer through this first buying experience. I doubt it will be that way when we come to our second.

Most of the general population is not likely eager to deal with Tesla unless Tesla seriously cleans up their act. Period. In a year or so, the competition is going to pour in like you wouldn't believe. Tesla will be up to it's gigafactories in competition, and they will not be happy. Tesla will be competing with companies that have worked out all the nonsense and customer service issues decades ago. These companies have strong distribution, sales, and service networks.

I am thoroughly convinced that all of this is a corporate attitude that prevails throughout Tesla. It's got to change eventually, or we will all own DeLoreans.

 

[SMAlset]

Tesla’s had time to work out lots of issues with the car including battery and software and just keeps improving though. I have no doubt automotive newcomers will be experiencing “growing” pains over a different kind of car than they have tried building.

Just today on the radio news was a report about emergency automatic braking. The owner of, I want to say a Nissan, was very upset she was on the highway at highway speeds and her car suddenly came to a complete, unexpected stop. The radio guy said that overpasses, etc can fool the cars and do this. The manufacturer said they had become aware of this and they had a fix and people had to take their car into the dealership for the update.

If I were buying a new EV with all the software that’s out there now and coming down the road, who would I trust more with my car?...someone who’s been experienced in it in production for what a collective million or more miles (forgot the total) or some legacy company that never built this car before and maybe builds cars with a tighter gap and smiles at me all the time while I go in for servicing...or Tesla who’s been there and done that and just gets better all the time, has a league of very happy, satisfied customers who just love their cars and can’t see buying anything else? and is working to not only improve their cars but reduce the cost of them as they achieve efficiencies? I’m not so sure when you are spending the amount of money EVs cost (battery and tech) that it’s going to be such a cakewalk for all these other companies.

 

[SMAlset]

I also have to say personally and not really from an eco-minded view but it factors in too, but I love what Tesla is doing. I’d much rather support a company that is making our lives fun while striving to make the air cleaner, than support a company who is really out more to now capture my money and had no interest in developing and seriously producing EVs. I’m sure we’ll all be seeing them touting their EVs when they come out, despite doing everything they could to quash the movement.

 

[jonquiljo]

Tesla’s had time to work out lots of issues with the car including battery and software and just keeps improving though. I have no doubt automotive newcomers will be experiencing “growing” pains over a different kind of car than they have tried building.

Just today on the radio news was a report about emergency automatic braking. The owner of, I want to say a Nissan, was very upset she was on the highway at highway speeds and her car suddenly came to a complete, unexpected stop. The radio guy said that overpasses, etc can fool the cars and do this. The manufacturer said they had become aware of this and they had a fix and people had to take their car into the dealership for the update.

If I were buying a new EV with all the software that’s out there now and coming down the road, who would I trust more with my car?...someone who’s been experienced in it in production for what a collective million or more miles (forgot the total) or some legacy company that never built this car before and maybe builds cars with a tighter gap and smiles at me all the time while I go in for servicing...or Tesla who’s been there and done that and just gets better all the time, has a league of very happy, satisfied customers who just love their cars and can’t see buying anything else? and is working to not only improve their cars but reduce the cost of them as they achieve efficiencies? I’m not so sure when you are spending the amount of money EVs cost (battery and tech) that it’s going to be such a cakewalk for all these other companies.

First of all, I just want to say that I definitely think that Tesla is a smart and innovative company. It just really has a seriously bad attitude when it comes to selling, delivering, and servicing cars.

But, the tech you refer to with cars stopping on freeways, etc. - is common on LOTS of cars these days. Cars with price points in the low $20K ranges are including these features. I really don't know if Tesla is any better. When it comes to driving cars, people have been behind the wheel for over 140 years, and only in the last 2 or 3 years are electronic systems taking over.

Tesla's big selling point is about selling bEV's - and the battery and EV technology is still better than anyone has out there. The autopilot functions and FSD are wish list items at best. Tesla is most sought after for being a bEV - and the competition is going to give it a run for it's money. No, it won't be easy for them, but they have far deeper pockets and bigger lines of credit than a Silicon Valley start-up. Lots of what Tesla has done on the innovative side can be copied.

If Tesla wants to clean up it's act, it could give the whole auto industry a run for it's money. But it still has to clean up it's act. It can't act and do business like a Silicon Valley start-up any more. Elon Musk has to stop being a celebrity and be more of a business-person.

 

[Phlier]

Don't forget the "older" (not old!) potential customers like me. Actually, it has nothing to do with age. Young, middle aged, or older - the phenomenon is the same. There are a certain group of people (mostly like ourselves) that are so interested in what Tesla has to offer, that we are willing to deal with Tesla. So most of us at this forum will suffer through this first buying experience. I doubt it will be that way when we come to our second.

Most of the general population is not likely eager to deal with Tesla unless Tesla seriously cleans up their act. Period. In a year or so, the competition is going to pour in like you wouldn't believe. Tesla will be up to it's gigafactories in competition, and they will not be happy. Tesla will be competing with companies that have worked out all the nonsense and customer service issues decades ago. These companies have strong distribution, sales, and service networks.

I am thoroughly convinced that all of this is a corporate attitude that prevails throughout Tesla. It's got to change eventually, or we will all own DeLoreans.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, there is one major problem with legacy car makers coming out with all the Tesla competition you’re talking about: There are no batteries for them. There is currently no other battery supplier (besides Tesla themselves) that can produce enough batteries for even one legacy car maker to produce a mass market electric car, let alone multiple makers. Tesla didn’t build a huge battery factory for the heck of it.

IMO, there is no way a legacy manufacturer is going to be able to produce a mass market Tesla competitor unless and until they invest in the battery manufacturing infrastructure to support it.

There’s a reason they all haven’t built a competing car up until this point, and IMO, this is it. And to my knowledge, none of them have even started to solve this problem yet.

Until the battery manufacturing infrastructure exists to supply the legacy car manufacturers with batteries for their cars, Tesla has the market cornered, save for the few smaller battery niche vehicles currently being sold, but IMO, they aren’t even in the same class.

 

[jonquiljo]

While I agree with a lot of what you say, there is one major problem with legacy car makers coming out with all the Tesla competition you’re talking about: There is no batteries for them. There is currently no other battery supplier (besides Tesla themselves) that can produce enough batteries for even one legacy car maker to produce a mass market electric car, let alone multiple makers. Tesla didn’t build a huge battery factory for the heck of it.

IMO, there is no way a legacy manufacturer is going to be able to produce a mass market Tesla competitor unless and until they invest in the battery manufacturing infrastructure to support it.

There’s a reason they all haven’t built a competing car up until this point, and IMO, this is it. And to my knowledge, none of them have even started to solve this problem yet.

Until the battery manufacturing infrastructure exist to supply the legacy car manufacturers with batteries for their cars, Tesla has the market cornered, save for the few smaller battery niche vehicles currently being sold, but IMO, they aren’t even in the same class.

True. Good point. But Tesla can be copied battery-wise and a company that has enough cash to throw around can duplicate them en-masse while developing better versions. It just requires a lot of money which seems to still be in plentiful supply everywhere.

There are a lot of reasons for some company to invest in battery technology and production - more than to just build bEV's. When there's a need, there will be a way. Tesla's reputation for bad sales, delivery, and customer service has not gone unnoticed. Tesla can overcome this, or be forced to deal with someone else doing better. 2020 is still going to be a Tesla year. 2021 could be open to a legacy manufacturer if they wanted to shell out the money. 2022 for sure. I don't think that conventional car makers are going to sit this one out. Their future depends on it.

 

[Saffron]

They absolutely set a delivery date. I had to go in their system and pick

to me, once you do that, you’re telling me “go spend money getting all the necessary things you need done”

I told them if you’re answer to me after all that is “if you’re not satisfied you can cancel your purchase” that is completely shitty. I’m already almost $2000 in the hole. I had to hire a rush contractor who was willing to come within 7 days- do you know how hard that is ? I had to buy a wall connector off amazon at a premium to the Tesla $500 price because I knew the website was wildly unreliable and many people didn’t get orders delivered for weeks or sometimes months. I had to pull permits. I rearranged my personal life and took myself off a family vacation, rescheduled coworkers who were scheduled to cover for me during that vacation (who I now can’t reschedule back)

the reason I performed all these backflips, is because they themselves told me , almost flippantly, “if you don’t get the car within 7 days, you will lose it to someone else. We can’t hold it”

If you set all those very inflexible parameters and tell me to start jumping through hoops, and then take it all away on a whim because you saved $300 bucks of space on a delivery truck, then you are a trash company.

I know what they will do “we’re so sorry, here’s a $50 wheel aero kit” yeah assholes- thanks, I’m $2000 in the hole. I might have spent closer to $1000 if I wasn’t rushed and not flipped my personal and professional life upside down because of your stupid and arbitrary parameters.

I told them I want a discount or wheel upgrade , a bunch of supercharger miles, something with more value than some stupid $50-$100 accessory. At the very least, install my homelink I bought and refund me the price. But seeing how cold they have been up until now, I know the manager is going to tell me to pound sand. Tesla has so much demand they literally don’t give two shits

I can't believe how bad Tesla's customer service is! If you are willing to pay for the car fully and let it sit in their lot for a few days why can't they hold it? They just made a sale! I'd be happy to give up the ability to return the car in 7 days if it means they will improve delivery timing.

 

[dandrewk]

[QUOTE="jonquiljo, post: 4139117, member: 116051"

Most of the general population is not likely eager to deal with Tesla unless Tesla seriously cleans up their act. Period. In a year or so, the competition is going to pour in like you wouldn't believe. Tesla will be up to it's gigafactories in competition, and they will not be happy. Tesla will be competing with companies that have worked out all the nonsense and customer service issues decades ago. These companies have strong distribution, sales, and service networks.

[/QUOTE]

Where is this competition you speak of, currently or in the future? The only two that now remotely compete are the Bolt and Leaf. Do a apples/apples comparison, and the Model 3 wins, hands down. The future? Mercedes, Porsche and Audi might have a similar EV... compared to the Model S/X. I know of no others with Model 3 type specs out there.

There are two issues hindering domestic networks. Well, three if you consider public misconceptions and love for loud, smelly cars. The first is batteries. Nobody is close to Tesla in building them in huge quantities. And only Nissan is building their own. It's hard to compete when you don't have the critical part in sufficient supply.

The other major issue, perhaps the biggest: dealers and dealer networks. I'm sure we've all dealt with salesman and the aggravating dance that accompanies search for, finding and then buying from a dealership. Tesla has bypassed this obstacle, and in the meantime saved $billions in the overhead, profit sharing and costs of a dealer network. Those cost savings are a huge reason why Tesla can offer the Model 3 at the prices they do.

Dealer networks: There are many Nissan and GM dealers that refuse to sell EVs, or do so begrudgingly. They just don't make after market sales that ICE cars do, and for most that's their only profit center. GM, VW and several others make attractive, long range BEVs that they sell -everywhere but the USA-. Recently the Korean manufacturers offered attractive long range EVs. Kia has already postponed USA rollout until next model year. Hyundai ostensibly has theirs available in the USA, but good luck finding one.

I had an awful experience at a Hyundai dealership. When the salesman heard I was only interested in BEVs, I as met with callous, dismissive, and near insulting indifference. He could not wait to pass me off to someone else, and this person knew far less about their BEV than I did.

I wish you were right, and you probably are. But it will be a lot longer that one year.

 

[Luso7]

Is your 2nd VIN also a "source code" VIN?

No , it was an overt vin on my main page, then it disappeared, but now it’s still in my source code.
If you can make sense of it, you’d be my hero

 

[SMAlset]

We have had a pretty good experience, if not great, at times in our Tesla interactions.

True. Good point. But Tesla can be copied battery-wise and a company that has enough cash to throw around can duplicate them en-masse while developing better versions. It just requires a lot of money which seems to still be in plentiful supply everywhere.....

I believe Tesla purchased or did deals for the minerals needed for their batteries a while ago. And seem to recall a recent trip he made to South America to one of the mines? They are also working on technology to drastically reduce the use of one of those minerals. What will come out of their recent purchase of Maxwell will be interesting. I'm not so sure Tesla's success, and don't think they have necessarily shared their exact battery technology, will be so duplicatable.

Companies just now starting to investigate producing batteries on their own are running into supply issues and why one of the manufacturers orders was cut by one of their suppliers. Third party battery suppliers can't make them fast enough to fill orders.

 

[jonquiljo]

It doesn’t even have to be a car company. I’m sure that many companies have entertained multi multi billion dollar development of batteries. The biggest use will probably be in conjunction with solar power.

Solar is good to have on a home (if your local laws don’t make you go crazy dealing with aesthetics). But solar would be much better if you could keep a good deal of the power you generate, rather than pushing it back onto your power grid. Tesla started this, but apparently have diverted many resources from power to cars as the Model 3 was ramped up. Tesla has limitations, as it can’t go on forever spending more and more money.

When there’s a way to make money, there’s always some company with their wallet open.

 

[Phlier]

I don't think that conventional car makers are going to sit this one out. Their future depends on it.

Now that's something we can both definitely agree on.

 

[holmgang]

The thing people don't seem to understand is that Tesla is not selling vehicles like a traditional dealership. They don't build additional margin into their vehicles to solve customer service problems.

The whole point of a Tesla's web-order model is for transparency and ease of purchase, neither of which has proven true

Its not like you're going to be going back to them to pay for all of your maintenance needs. They don't make money on the back end from your patronage as a customer as is standard in the car dealership model.

they're happy to sell merchandise, accessories, energy/solar systems, and other related goods. they dont have servicing because - as evident - they havent built and grown it properly, by lack of parts and etc.

If you're selling a high demand product with low margins you simply can't afford to financially compensate people for a negative experience, particularly if you did not explicitly cause it.

high demand gives them the pricing power to build in the margins. and who else caused this guy's delivery issues if not tesla?

FYI, I took delivery about a month ago and they rescheduled my delivery appointment 3 times due to delays on the processing side. It definitely said that the delivery date was tentative so while it sucks that you rearranged your life and I empathize with the fact that it cost you $ to do so, I don't think they have a responsibility to compensate you financially. Its not unreasonable for you to ask, or expect or w/e but if I was in their position I would tell you to go pound sand.

house then car, for most people the most expensive and significant thing theyll ever purchase. and critical. imagine being told that you wont know when you can move into a residence -- it can be anywhere from 1-3 months, and that you'll be notified one day, but post-notification it is also liable to change.

 

[Wizard2416]

Don't forget the "older" (not old!) potential customers like me. Actually, it has nothing to do with age. Young, middle aged, or older - the phenomenon is the same. There are a certain group of people (mostly like ourselves) that are so interested in what Tesla has to offer, that we are willing to deal with Tesla. So most of us at this forum will suffer through this first buying experience. I doubt it will be that way when we come to our second.

Most of the general population is not likely eager to deal with Tesla unless Tesla seriously cleans up their act. Period. In a year or so, the competition is going to pour in like you wouldn't believe. Tesla will be up to it's gigafactories in competition, and they will not be happy. Tesla will be competing with companies that have worked out all the nonsense and customer service issues decades ago. These companies have strong distribution, sales, and service networks.

I am thoroughly convinced that all of this is a corporate attitude that prevails throughout Tesla. It's got to change eventually, or we will all own DeLoreans.

Lol! Competition is still trying to figure how a 2012 Model S works.

If there's any competition, it would probably be with based on 2012 tech which I don't think would be fun.

The OP went to check the VIN number that was on the website but it wasn't posted for him to see... that doesn't mean that the car belongs to him, he just made the assumption that it was.

Re-scheduling sucks but it happens. If that bothers you, clearly Tesla is not for you hence you better off with a Camry or Toyota. If you really want the car ASAP, then go to a store and get one that has been already pre-build like you would do in a normal delaership (because there's not such thing as ordering a car the way you like it on any other dealership, they will just push you to buy their inventory cars instead).

About the charger installation... it kinda makes no sense, you will still installed sooner or later so no need to cancel anything.

 

[Luso7]

Lol! Competition is still trying to figure how a 2012 Model S works.

If there's any competition, it would probably be with based on 2012 tech which I don't think would be fun.

The OP went to check the VIN number that was on the website but it wasn't posted for him to see... that doesn't mean that the car belongs to him, he just made the assumption that it was.

Re-scheduling sucks but it happens. If that bothers you, clearly Tesla is not for you hence you better off with a Camry or Toyota. If you really want the car ASAP, then go to a store and get one that has been already pre-build like you would do in a normal delaership (because there's not such thing as ordering a car the way you like it on any other dealership, they will just push you to buy their inventory cars instead).

About the charger installation... it kinda makes no sense, you will still installed sooner or later so no need to cancel anything.

I don’t think the competition is so far off. The Ford Mustang-crossover is revealed this coming month. The f150 is a year away probably. The Germans all have electronic vehicles on tap in the coming year.

if you’re going to do a straight comparison on coolness/ technology / experience...yes, they may be behind Tesla. But I don’t think that matters to a lot of people.

someone who has bought fords their whole life and gets to choose between an electric f150, a brand and name they are used to, and a dealership structure they are used to, that they can call and speak to someone anytime they want, I think that overshadows all the cool tech for a lot of consumers. We are all biased to be inclined to the tech side as enthusiasts or consumers/future consumers of Tesla, that doesn’t mean everyone else is the same

Tesla is definitely the king of the industry right now. If they don’t clean up their customer service and manufacturing act, they are going to give all that share right back up tot he big manufacturers and only keep the nerdy purists who want their car to smart summon. All of these manufacturers have the infrastructure in place that Tesla is only starting to develop. And Tesla only has a captive audience because no one is playing in their space. Once all the rest catch up and can show a product that does 75% of what a Tesla does and is electronic, I think Tesla will be screwed unless they massively up their service and can deliver from factory within a few weeks, but moreover, have a glut of supply at their hands

 

[Az_Rael]

If I were buying a new EV with all the software that’s out there now and coming down the road, who would I trust more with my car?...someone who’s been experienced in it in production for what a collective million or more miles (forgot the total) or some legacy company that never built this car before and maybe builds cars with a tighter gap and smiles at me all the time while I go in for servicing...or Tesla who’s been there and done that and just gets better all the time, has a league of very happy, satisfied customers who just love their cars and can’t see buying anything else? and is working to not only improve their cars but reduce the cost of them as they achieve efficiencies? I’m not so sure when you are spending the amount of money EVs cost (battery and tech) that it’s going to be such a cakewalk for all these other companies.

I would be willing to take a chance on a legacy manufacturer who doesn’t have a lot of EV experience because I would be confident that their customer service would cover me for any issues that arise. The legacy manufacturers have deep pockets and the knowledge that taking care of customers begets repeat customers. Kind of like when Nissan replaced all those early Leaf batteries for the thermal issues. Tesla has some concerning things going on now with their batteries being software limited without customer’s choice or knowledge and they are stonewalling everyone on why. I honestly no longer trust Tesla’s battery warranty to actually take care of me without a huge fight anymore should I have issues in the future. I have seen too many reports of Tesla service attempting to deny basic warranty claims (yellowing screens due to the assembly process for example) or just generally being crappy (diagnostic fees for warranty items) on this forum.

Where is this competition you speak of, currently or in the future? The only two that now remotely compete are the Bolt and Leaf. Do a apples/apples comparison, and the Model 3 wins, hands down. The future? Mercedes, Porsche and Audi might have a similar EV... compared to the Model S/X. I know of no others with Model 3 type specs out there.

Well, Ford has a potential Model Y competitor coming out in fall of 2020. We will see how close it really is when they do the reveal of the production car at the LA auto show next month. I don’t know how long wait for a Model 3 competitor. It seems like sedans are passé now like the stations wagons of the past (much to my disappointment). There are a lot of 3 buyers who would have bought the Y instead had it existed, so who knows how much real demand there is for a sedan.

 

[Luso7]

Lol! Competition is still trying to figure how a 2012 Model S works.

If there's any competition, it would probably be with based on 2012 tech which I don't think would be fun.

The OP went to check the VIN number that was on the website but it wasn't posted for him to see... that doesn't mean that the car belongs to him, he just made the assumption that it was.

Re-scheduling sucks but it happens. If that bothers you, clearly Tesla is not for you hence you better off with a Camry or Toyota. If you really want the car ASAP, then go to a store and get one that has been already pre-build like you would do in a normal delaership (because there's not such thing as ordering a car the way you like it on any other dealership, they will just push you to buy their inventory cars instead).

About the charger installation... it kinda makes no sense, you will still installed sooner or later so no need to cancel anything.

The way you described what i saw, and what I did, is not correct. Reread the thread

 

[jkoya]

@Luso7 - Have you heard anything definitive from Tesla yet on a delivery date ?

 

[Luso7]

I would be willing to take a chance on a legacy manufacturer who doesn’t have a lot of EV experience because I would be confident that their customer service would cover me for any issues that arise. The legacy manufacturers have deep pockets and the knowledge that taking care of customers begets repeat customers. Kind of like when Nissan replaced all those early Leaf batteries for the thermal issues. Tesla has some concerning things going on now with their batteries being software limited without customer’s choice or knowledge and they are stonewalling everyone on why. I honestly no longer trust Tesla’s battery warranty to actually take care of me without a huge fight anymore should I have issues in the future. I have seen too many reports of Tesla service attempting to deny basic warranty claims (yellowing screens due to the assembly process for example) or just generally being crappy (diagnostic fees for warranty items) on this forum.



Well, Ford has a potential Model Y competitor coming out in fall of 2020. We will see how close it really is when they do the reveal of the production car at the LA auto show next month. I don’t know how long wait for a Model 3 competitor. It seems like sedans are passé now like the stations wagons of the past (much to my disappointment). There are a lot of 3 buyers who would have bought the Y instead had it existed, so who knows how much real demand there is for a sedan.

bingo. You get it

not to say the legacy guys are amazing. But I know if my 5000 mile f150 breaks down, some dealer around me will fix it guaranteed. I can pick up the phone and someone (gasp) actually picks up. They aren’t out of stock of every damn accessory in the world (2 months for a wall connector!!!)