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Tesla gen 3 charger - single phase vs 3 phase for Model 3 RWD (2023 model)

A link to the speeds for each car as further evidence that resolve03 is correct
And a link the the American version shows where the confusion comes from,


ModelOnboard ChargerRecommended circuit breaker for Wall Connector installation
Model S
Model X
Model Y
Model 3 Performance
Model 3 Long Range
11.5 kW
(48 amp)
60 amp circuit breaker
Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive7.7 kW
(32 amp)
40 amp circuit breaker

compares with Australian,


Your TeslaOnboard Charger Rate (kW)*Typical Added Range
Model 31175 km/h
Model S / Model X16.590-80 km/h
Model S before May 201611 or 22
Check vehicle configuration
60 km/h
110 km/h
 

meloccom

Moderator Aus/NZ
Moderator
Feb 11, 2008
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Sydney Australia
I think the confusion may come from the fact that road testers would only have a single phase UMC to charge their Tesla. In that case the limiting factor is the UMC and the max charge rate is about 7.4Kw; whereas if you charge on a 3 phase connected Wall Connector that is capable of 22Kw but the limitation in this case is the on board charger in the car which is 11Kw.
I have a Wall connector on 3 phase and a Model S with twin chargers that is capable of 22Kw, However I have only turned it up to 22Kw a few times, generally around Christmas time when we are going from one family event to another. I have it set to charge at 10A 3 phase under normal circumstances which is about the 7Kw area. One of the reasons I put it on 3 phase is I know that the grid can be unstable if a large number of EV start charging on L1 and consider the installation an investment as this will not be my only EV.
 
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For charging at home, 11kW is pretty fast - that means 20-80% in 3 Hours and 16 minutes.. (for a RWD). Check out Electric car charging cost and time calculator
Definitely nice to have, but probably not necessary for most people. That being said, charging your car on 3 phase is nicer for load distribution for your houses power supply. Having a 3 phase supply and only loading up one phase can cause some problems, depending on your house wiring.
 
I have 15 kW solar and 3 phase power. I appreciate the ability to charge at 11 kW. I don't use it that much, as I tend to charge during the day at a lower rate to avoid using the grid. However, when plans change and I need a quick charge then it's useful.

If you look at today's solar output in the graph below you can see that there is only a small window where you can charge at 11 kW, without pulling from the gird, from about 10 am to 12:30 pm. Your mileage may vary, but it's just easier for me to start around 9 am at ~5 kW and ramp it up if it's a clear day.

1667826767368.png
 
AFAIK all Australian Model 3 on board chargers are still 11KW. On three phase it will use one of the three 16A chargers modules on each phase, i.e. three off those in parallel. On single phase it will use two of the three 16A charger modules in series to give a total of 32A and around 7KW.
The only benefit in requesting the gen 3 charger to be installed on a single phase is that you can charge at a lower rate. If installed as 3 phase the minimum rate is 5A on each of the three phases or around 3.7KW. If installed as single phase it is 5A on the one phase or about 1.2KW. The only benefit I can see for this is if you are trying to track solar usage on a smaller system or deep into winter.
I discovered something interesting the other day. It appears that the APIs that set charge rate actually allow less than 5A to be set. Using ChargeHQ, I was able to set a charge as low as 1A, which would be around 720W! I actually have my second wall-mounted EVSE (a Jetcharge unit) setup for single phase because of the reason that you mentioned, but it was possibly unnecessary.

Note that I have not actually tested that the 1A charge rate only pulls 720W, nor whether it actually feeds power into the car.
 
Good point. i thought maybe it would be much more expensive but maybe not
Costs the same to run the cable and only a small amount extra to terminate. Cable cost is obviously higher, but 6mm orange circular 5 core is not exactly super expensive unless you are making a really long run (I actually used 10mm but I am known to overengineer things).

The other cost that needs to be considered is space in your board. Assuming that you have a reasonably modern house with a DIN rail type main panel (likely since you have a 3 phase solar setup), a single phase RCBO (residual current breaker) uses a single slot while a 3 phase usually uses 4 slots (there are 3 slot versions, but they are upside down from a cabling perspective compared to the stuff that I was using (Häger). If your board does not have 4 adjacent slots then you might be in for extra cost.

In the end, 7.7kW or 11kW will still fully charge overnight, so not a big deal.
 
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For charging at home, 11kW is pretty fast - that means 20-80% in 3 Hours and 16 minutes.. (for a RWD). Check out Electric car charging cost and time calculator
Definitely nice to have, but probably not necessary for most people. That being said, charging your car on 3 phase is nicer for load distribution for your houses power supply. Having a 3 phase supply and only loading up one phase can cause some problems, depending on your house wiring.

Thank you. Pretty happy with that. We have good solar so will charge it between 10am and 2pm when we work from home and it will basically use solar (for the most part) and charge to 100%, without taking too much from the grid.

On the days that we work (get home 6pm) is it recommended to charge to 100% still (for RWD)...which wouldn't use solar as it would be night time and I don't have battery setup at home. Or could I wait a day or two when I'm working from home again or the weekend? I think I read RWD should be charged to 100% every day?
 
Thank you. Pretty happy with that. We have good solar so will charge it between 10am and 2pm when we work from home and it will basically use solar (for the most part) and charge to 100%, without taking too much from the grid.

On the days that we work (get home 6pm) is it recommended to charge to 100% still (for RWD)...which wouldn't use solar as it would be night time and I don't have battery setup at home. Or could I wait a day or two when I'm working from home again or the weekend? I think I read RWD should be charged to 100% every day?
You can charge to 100% everyday and is recommended to charge to 100% at least once a week. This is to keep the Battery Management System happy and so it doesn't get too lost. The LFP chemistry has a really flat charge/discharge voltage profile.
For your use case my suggestion would be to charge to 100% on work from home days to best maximise the solar usage.
Tesla is also possibly being a little too cautious here as they had some issues early on with LFP BMS getting confused as to when the battery was empty. Technically charging to 100% on LFP has a battery life cost associated with it, it is just vastly less of an issue than with NMC and some other lithium chemistries. And they have made the decision that 100% charges are better trade off than losing track of where the bottom of the pack is. Being told you have 20% battery left only for that to suddenly drop to 5% or less is not a good user experience.
 
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You can charge to 100% everyday and is recommended to charge to 100% at least once a week. This is to keep the Battery Management System happy and so it doesn't get too lost. The LFP chemistry has a really flat charge/discharge voltage profile.
For your use case my suggestion would be to charge to 100% on work from home days to best maximise the solar usage.
Tesla is also possibly being a little too cautious here as they had some issues early on with LFP BMS getting confused as to when the battery was empty. Technically charging to 100% on LFP has a battery life cost associated with it, it is just vastly less of an issue than with NMC and some other lithium chemistries. And they have made the decision that 100% charges are better trade off than losing track of where the bottom of the pack is. Being told you have 20% battery left only for that to suddenly drop to 5% or less is not a good user experience.

Brilliant thanks so much. Work from home twice a week and then there is weekends....so plenty of opportunity to charge to 100% during sunny hours to maximise solar :)
 
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meloccom

Moderator Aus/NZ
Moderator
Feb 11, 2008
2,879
2,137
Sydney Australia
Many questions about 3 phase versus single phase.
For those wanting to know if their house is single or 3 phase, the most reliable way is to open your Switch-box or Meter-box, and count the number of Meter Protection Devices, which are bigger fusible links encased in plastic, generally black. I’m away from my house at the moment, so this is a random picture of a switchboard taken from the internet showing 3 MPDs, indicating that it is 3 phase. Not sure why 2 meters, perhaps a controlled load.
88CABEEC-F01C-449E-9981-91723A6163EF.jpeg


This is a modern switch-box and the components in an older one will look slightly different but even the electrical room in the 1980s apartment building where I am currently has larger versions of these MPDs.
 
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Vostok

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Jul 1, 2017
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Well hasn’t this been an entertaining thread… “you‘re wrong”… “no, you’re wrong” 😄🤷‍♂️

I have 15 kW solar and 3 phase power. I appreciate the ability to charge at 11 kW. I don't use it that much, as I tend to charge during the day at a lower rate to avoid using the grid. However, when plans change and I need a quick charge then it's useful.

This. I’ve had my Model 3 for nearly 3 years now. In that time, I‘ve AC charged at 11kW exactly once.

But the time I needed to do it, I really needed to do it.

Life is unpredictable.
 
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