Tesla got the worst score in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey

[CapeOne]

All those other manufacturers have a middle man that is vested in fixing problems before it makes it to the customer.... The dealerships. It the other manufacturers have things slip through the factory, they can fix them before a customer sees them. They don't want to get stuck with a car, so they do that. Tesla delivers directly to the customer so they don't have that benefit.

Not saying that Tesla QC is great or anything but it's a little apples to oranges when you survey end customers and then proclaim that's how it came out of the factory.

I don't think it's really that much apples and oranges. If Tesla cared more about quality and customer service, their stores/service centers would have a vested interest in how cars are delivered to customers. Tesla stores are essentially dealerships, they just happen to be owned and operated by Tesla. The stores/centers should be able to deliver cars to customers similar to how dealerships deliver cars to customers. Quality and customer service just don't seem to be priorities with Tesla, at least not consistent ones (some facilities actually do a decent job), and that is reflected in surveys like this one by JDP.

 

[Stickboy46]

I don't think it's really that much apples and oranges. If Tesla cared more about quality and customer service, their stores/service centers would have a vested interest in how cars are delivered to customers. Tesla stores are essentially dealerships, they just happen to be owned and operated by Tesla. The stores/centers should be able to deliver cars to customers similar to how dealerships deliver cars to customers. Quality and customer service just don't seem to be priorities with Tesla, at least not consistent ones (some facilities actually do a decent job), and that is reflected in surveys like this one by JDP.

They aren't though. That particular Tesla store doesn't own any of those cars. They don't lose profit when then sit on the lot. They don't get paid less when they don't move cars. Dealerships do. They already bought the car and need to move it or their profit drops. They get paid less if people reject cars.

 

[SageBrush]

That's only true if the glitch is severe enough that the owner feels the need to report it on the JD Power survey. Also, that's true for every other car too. Just because my Telsa has the biggest screen doesn't mean no other cars have software or software issues. Also, software issues are a valid part of the initial quality experience for a customer, so of course they should be counted.

If the source of the poor score for Tesla is AP then the entire JDP exercise is a waste of time because no other manufacturer offers customer facing technology like Tesla.

Let me phrase it this way: The best way to not have new tech glitches is to not have the tech at all. Is that the car you want ?

 

[GZDongles]

If the source of the poor score for Tesla is AP then the entire JDP exercise is a waste of time because no other manufacturer offers customer facing technology like Tesla.

Let me phrase it this way: The best way to not have new tech glitches is to not have the tech at all. Is that the car you want ?

I'd be very surprised if AP or any other software issue accounted for the additional issues that Tesla experienced compared to other manufacturers. Also, many other OEMs have driver assistance features that are probably included in their ratings, so it's not like Tesla is completely unique in that category. It's a different survey and slightly different metrics, but the famous Bloomberg survey of Tesla Model 3 owners' reactions pointed primarily to exterior and interior issues. Of the software issues that were reported, many were related to non functional touchscreens, which is certainly an issue that has nothing to do with Tesla's more advanced software functionality.

However, it's important to know that most of the issues were self-reported as minor, as I'm sure is the case for the JDP survey as well.

 

[CapeOne]

They aren't though. That particular Tesla store doesn't own any of those cars. They don't lose profit when then sit on the lot. They don't get paid less when they don't move cars. Dealerships do. They already bought the car and need to move it or their profit drops. They get paid less if people reject cars.

Tesla stores have new inventory cars too and Tesla (and therefore the store) owns those cars. Not all new Teslas sold are custom orders. But besides that, Tesla also owns the custom order cars until a customer accepts delivery. If a customer immediately rejects or later returns a car due to quality issues then Tesla loses the profit from that particular sale and has to sit on the car until it can be sold/resold later at less profit or at the very least delayed profit. Tesla also gets "paid less" if people reject cars.

 

[GZDongles]

I'd be very surprised if AP or any other software issue accounted for the additional issues that Tesla experienced compared to other manufacturers. Also, many other OEMs have driver assistance features that are probably included in their ratings, so it's not like Tesla is completely unique in that category. It's a different survey and slightly different metrics, but the famous Bloomberg survey of Tesla Model 3 owners' reactions pointed primarily to exterior and interior issues. Of the software issues that were reported, many were related to non functional touchscreens, which is certainly an issue that has nothing to do with Tesla's more advanced software functionality.

However, it's important to know that most of the issues were self-reported as minor, as I'm sure is the case for the JDP survey as well.

View attachment 556501

I should have added that the Bloomberg survey revealed that, as many in this thread have been saying, overall satisfaction with both quality and reliability and overall satisfaction with the car are very high.

 

[SageBrush]

I'd be very surprised if AP or any other software issue accounted for the additional issues that Tesla experienced compared to other manufacturers.

Your attached graphic adds up to ~ 50. The lion's share are ?

The JDP survey rose to prominence for two reasons, one of them worthwhile: The latter was because initial quality correlated with long term quality. The bogus reason was because Detroit marketed it heavily during their attempts to leave their piss-poor reputation behind. Two things are true today: one, the JDP survey has been 'gamed'. by Detroit and no longer has the predictive value of yesteryear; and second, Tesla has broken the mold completely. Initial cosmetic quality issues do not track *at all* with e.g. drivetrain reliability.

Should Tesla improve its score ? Sure
How much should a prospective Tesla customer care about a poor score ? Not much

 

[Uncle Paul]

I guess the pressure will be on Tesla to improve their as delivered quality.

For many years, there has been an unrelenting demand for their cars, and tremendous pressure for Tesla to deliver more and more cars every Quarter.

Now is the time for them to take a breather and focus more on delivering excelence for the delivery experience. Focus more on producing quality over maximum quantity.

The Elephant in the room has had it's cover removed.

 

[BEPA400]

It seems that both of our good experiences were outliers

Same here. A few minor things that would be chalked up to my overbearing scrutiny, and apprehension due to first New car purchase. But nothing that they couldn’t buff out at delivery.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I am so confused about the "poor quality" remarks. Are people really more worried if the hood is .0001 farther to the left than the right?

Sadly, painfully, yes. At least in these forums.

 

[GZDongles]

Your attached graphic adds up to ~ 50. The lion's share are ?

The JDP survey rose to prominence for two reasons, one of them worthwhile: The latter was because initial quality correlated with long term quality. The bogus reason was because Detroit marketed it heavily during their attempts to leave their piss-poor reputation behind. Two things are true today: one, the JDP survey has been 'gamed'. by Detroit and no longer has the predictive value of yesteryear; and second, Tesla has broken the mold completely. Initial cosmetic quality issues do not track *at all* with e.g. drivetrain reliability.

Should Tesla improve its score ? Sure
How much should a prospective customer care about a poor score ? Not much

It looks like the graphic adds up to about 65. As I said, different methodology than JDP. One important methodology difference is the different time period - Bloomberg asked about issues in the first 30 days and JDP asked about issues in the first three months. The Bloomberg survey was also self selecting, you had to go there intentionally to fill it out, where the JDP survey probably reaches a broader set of "normal" owners who aren't reading Bloomberg

Look, I agree with most of what you are saying. I bought the car after extensive research, and I came to exactly that conclusion: I am not a panel gap fanatic and I never cared about these minor issues in my old car, so why should they stop me from buying a Tesla? We can argue about the validity of the JDP survey all we want, but it's definitely an input into consumer perceptions of the car and of the brand. All I'm saying no matter how much potential buyers "should" care about the JDP survey, there is a segment of the market that certainly will. If you look at Google News results for Tesla today, it's all about the JDP results and other negative things. To grow and become more mainstream, Tesla needs to address quality issues or the perception of quality issues to reach a broader market. Some people care intensely about their paint and spend $7,000 putting PPF and ceramic on their cars. That doesn't make sense to me, but who am I to tell people what they should value in their expensive purchases? Some people highly value the items/issues covered in the initial quality survey, and telling them that the long term drivetrain reliability is good will be small comfort, especially since that's not a claim that's been proven on the Model 3 (I believe you, but we have plenty of data for initial quality and little for long term reliability given that there are relatively few cars more than 2 years old).

 

[BEPA400]

They aren't though. That particular Tesla store doesn't own any of those cars. They don't lose profit when then sit on the lot. They don't get paid less when they don't move cars. Dealerships do. They already bought the car and need to move it or their profit drops. They get paid less if people reject cars.

They also resort to sick tactics to close deals. It’s a systemic problem with traditional car dealerships. One that I think Tesla has pretty much fixed. I’d prefer their current model over going back to having to deal with salespeople for my next car purchase.

 

[SlimJim]

despite the "low quality" the demand is so high that Tesla cannot make cars fast enough.
I am happy with my Tesla.

 

[GZDongles]

Same here. A few minor things that would be chalked up to my overbearing scrutiny, and apprehension due to first New car purchase. But nothing that they couldn’t buff out at delivery.

These forums were dangerous to read before my delivery appointment . I was so worried about "burn-in" from the seat belts on my nice white seats, so I was really concerned about a small black smudge on the seat under the belt. The delivery specialist probably thought I was a dramatic anal customer when he wiped it off for me with a microfiber cloth. I also initially thought there was a peeling coating from the b pillar camera, but it turned out to be leftover protective wrap from the factory.

 

[Dolemite]

Part of the problem is also that we’re neurotic and OCD.

 

[ThePlankeEye]

JD Power has alway made crap like Chevy above Toyota and Honda. Today, we see an FCA brand at the top. That is a joke. I like FCA and respect that they beat to a different drum. I own an Alfa and previously owned a JL Rubicon. I love them even with their flaws. However, the truth is the only list that an FCA brand deserves to be at the top of is the percentage of lemon law buy backs. Somehow the crooked domestic dealerships game JDP.

 

[Joshan]

JD Power has alway made crap like Chevy above Toyota and Honda. Today, we see an FCA brand at the top. That is a joke. I like FCA and respect that they beat to a different drum. I own an Alfa and previously owned a JL Rubicon. I love them even with their flaws. However, the truth is the only list that an FCA brand deserves to be at the top of is the percentage of lemon law buy backs. Somehow the crooked domestic dealerships game JDP.

True Story

 

[JayNJ]

Definitely agree. But Tesla operates differently than others. They aren't afraid to push software out when it isn't perfect. That is hopefully mentioned in all these articles.

Which is bad initial quality. Choosing bad quality as your normal method of operation doesn't earn you bonus points.

 

[JayNJ]

I am so confused about the "poor quality" remarks. Are people really more worried if the hood is .0001 farther to the left than the right? To me "quality" means how reliably it gets me to where I am going without any issues or surprises and how often it needs service.

Thus far it is the highest "quaity" car I have ever owned. I have owned Porsche Boxster and currently also own an Acura RDX. They both required repairs and towing...

It is not minor gaps people are seeing. I know I had major body control module failures 5 minutes after driving off the lot (took 4+ weeks to fix). Current Y are quality mess with many hatches not closing properly and panels completely out of wack. Paint has been a constant problem, not enough coverage in many spots, bad defects (some caused by poor attempts at fixing other blemishes).

 

[Struja]

Tesla changed the game for me and the way I look at my cars. Frankly, I have become a total hypocrite.

I owned Lexus cars almost exclusively since 1992. The reason? Reliability, reliability, reliability. The fit and finish of a Lexus is usually top shelf.

However, from the moment I test drove a Model S, all bets were off. I have had multiple problems with my S (replaced driver seat, misaligned door frame, squeaks, rattles - you name it). If this were my Lexus, I would lose my sh*t at the dealership but my Tesla gives me so much more pleasure than anything I’ve ever driven, I am still 100% satisfied and still love my car more than any other and it isn’t even close.

This past weekend I drove my brother in laws Range Rover SVR, which is more than $200k in Canada and to me it felt like a horse and buggy. Just awful IMO. So, admittedly I am a hypocrite and I would love it if Tesla improved quality control and reliability but it hasn’t changed my opinion one iota.