Tesla got the worst score in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey

[CertLive]

Maybe my standards are too low. After all, I haven't owned
any serious luxury cars. No Bentleys, not even a Lexus.
When the salesman said "But Mr Fernand, you must
understand, this is not an average car, this is a Lexus",
I burst out laughing. Poor simple me, I thought a Honda
Accord LX was a very well made car. And, as if to viciously
prove me right, 14 years later, it's only needed brakes,
batteries and tires. And the leather seats are perfectly
nice. And it looks pretty good.

So, maybe although it's the most expensive car I've ever
bought, I'm just ignorant. I'm not out there on my Model 3
with a micrometer, checking panel fit, or craning my neck
under all its armpits looking for paint misses, and telling
everyone about QA problems. Like I would be, if I were a
proper luxury car connoisseur.
.

They absolutely are and everyone should expect the car they work hard to pay for to on pickup be in perfect shape. Just like the ones on the website at point of sale. Why should this be the case.. well because each of those cars before they leave the factory not only should have gone through various points of inspection but also a last one at the finish line. Is it a pass great put it on the ship is it not OK send it to ex place for a finish-up and assessment. Then you can even give the customer a digital document to show it was checked over. Common problems would be logged with an actual incentive to fix it higher up the production line. Vs current methods of if on average 2 out of 10 cars do not have paint defects or trim put on wrong or seats that don't align on our new flagship model Y then that is just OK to pass onto the customer.

If this method of passing it on is the new normal then a disclaimer should be put at the point of sale so that customers know what they potentially getting into. As in you are buying a beta car and over the next 10 years we will try to fix our production issues this decade as we failed to in the last. Don't hate me the Y shows its still happening.

You see this is my second new car in a year but it does give me an insight into how a different company with the same value car compares. I bought a Kia Eniro last year. At the point of handover it was wonderful because when I picked it up from the showroom it had been given a total check over even by the mechanics to make sure it met their checklist. Yes that is all it is a checklist of regular checks for a new car to handover to the customer so that he drives out and down the road and gets what I call a new car experience. Granted its charging and motor fault while I was out in France certainly ended that quickly but you see what I mean with the difference? "Your car has arrived (Friday) it will be ready for you to pickup Tuesday once we have registered it and it has passed our checks." This is the huge difference and in Tesla's vision of getting you a car quick and changing the industry for more efficient delivery fine. BUT.... just do the right thing before hand and all those great people who work hard at the SC wont have to be dealing with 90% production issues. Customers wont have to wait a month or more to get starting fixed with free slots to book and Tesla would have the best quality reputation which I am sure Elon Musk would damn well want to happen. What if they painted the falcon 9 like that or put a boot seal on totally wrong vs did the same on a booster?

Fernand is not ignorant! in fact he had little wrong with his 14 year old car before he bought his most expensive car a Tesla. 14 years ago.. Of course you would expect better. I agreed I am not out there with the micrometer but you should not be dealing with blatant issues day one. It is not going to remove everything as car is complicated and parts go wrong and that is just how it will always be unless a model 3 was built like a NASA rover over engineered. All this company needs is to invest in a little buffer, a QC at the factory or destination country and not worry about if a customer has to wait a bit longer because I am sure 99% of people would wait a few days to pickup a trouble free car and actually the odd person feels surprised to find something because "Tesla's finish is usually so good amazing how that slipped through the net"

I didn't get lucky, still 9 months on going through the process I have to arguing paint thinning issues and such. But I wish it better for people in the future because word travels damn fast. Tesla is groundbreaking, technically untouchable at the moment and has pushed forward a necessary way for us to travel on electrons to save our planet, now add quality to that please.

 

[ColonelRHS]

I find it hilarious whenever JD Power publishes the results of one of their surveys, inevitably some owners of the brands who received the lowest scores from their owners start claiming JD Power doesn't know what they are talking about, the survey results can't possibly be real, some of the brands paid JD Power bribes to rank them higher, etc. etc. etc. Never fails.

JD Power is not even a "car oufit" as you claim. They are a market research firm. The results of their survey are based on responses from owners just like you and me. JD Power is not evaluating the cars. They merely tabulate what us owners have to say. And you better believe most of the the manufacturers are paying JD Power handsomely for the survey details on their cars as well as their competitors.

If you want to claim Tesla owners are lying and are fabricating complaints, guess that's not impossible. But ask yourself why would we be tending to do that any more than any other brand owners.

And please stop spreading misinformation:

-CR never rated Tesla unreliable because of paint issues.

-It's absolutely untrue JD Power "has been taking heat" from noted car experts. You are wildly mischaracterizing the comments.

Sure, buying a Dodge is no guarantee of having a troublefree car. But no one, including JD Power, ever made that claim. But one thing you can say for sure, after 90 days of ownership Tesla owners have a lot more complaints versus Dodge owners, and that's not good PR for Elon in the long run. The plant body shop issues can be fixed.

Elon may be fat and happy right now, but that's not going to last long term if he does not clean up the act on build quality.

 

[ColonelRHS]

I have a friend who owns a marketing firm and there is a big difference according to him with marketing firms, and firms who market and do PR for a fee, and tack on handing out awards.
I never ever claimed the Tesla owners were making false statements. You overreached on that.
As to taking heat from auto experts, I did not save the article from one of the car magazines, so I can not accurately respond to your insinuation that I made a false claim. Kilmer would certainly rate as an auto expert and his YouTube is available for review. CR was in fact called out when they first rated Tesla as unreliable and they did have paint problems as one of the issues.
Back to the J.D. Powers survey. It simply does not stand up to other surveys made by others. Toyota is rated number one in the world, how did J.D. Powers come up missing that? I invite you to go to the web and research other car evaluations and you will have to conclude J.D. Powers report may contain a hint of malice since they were denied Tesla customer list and research.

 

[Jayson]

I have a friend who owns a marketing firm and there is a big difference according to him with marketing firms, and firms who market and do PR for a fee, and tack on handing out awards.
I never ever claimed the Tesla owners were making false statements. You overreached on that.
As to taking heat from auto experts, I did not save the article from one of the car magazines, so I can not accurately respond to your insinuation that I made a false claim. Kilmer would certainly rate as an auto expert and his YouTube is available for review. CR was in fact called out when they first rated Tesla as unreliable and they did have paint problems as one of the issues.
Back to the J.D. Powers survey. It simply does not stand up to other surveys made by others. Toyota is rated number one in the world, how did J.D. Powers come up missing that? I invite you to go to the web and research other car evaluations and you will have to conclude J.D. Powers report may contain a hint of malice since they were denied Tesla customer list and research.

And I never said you claimed Tesla owners were making false statements. You might want to re-read my post.

JD Power surveys don't stand up to surveys made by others? Exactly what surveys are you speaking of? Toyota is rated number one in the world? Says who? And rated number one in what?

And specifically how would other car evaluations show JD Power has malice for Tesla? In post #88 above read what the JD Power executives had to say about Tesla. Does that sound like malice to you? You really think an organization like JD Power is about to risk their reputation by being anything less than objective in their surveys?

I'm very familiar with Scotty's videos. He has never once said anything whatsoever that conflicts with the results of JD Power's survey here.

Below is what CR said when they originally pulled the M3 off their recommended list. You might want to be aware of CR's long standing policy of not including a car model on their recommended lists if the model scores less than average in their reliability surveys, irrespective of how high it was rated in other aspects, including the road test. If any "so called auto experts" really called out CR for rating Tesla as unreliable (not even sure that's correct at all), then essentially what they would be saying is Tesla owners don't know what they are taking about. Sincerely doubt any "auto experts" would be foolish enough to say such a thing:

Consumer Reports can no longer recommend the newest Tesla—the Model 3 electric sedan—because members say they’ve identified a number of problems with their cars, including issues with its body hardware, as well as paint and trim. CR members reported these results in our annual reliability survey, which includes data on about 470,000 vehicles.

The Model 3 is a critical car for Tesla. It’s the automaker’s first attempt at a true mass-market electric vehicle (EV), and its long, bumpy launch into the consumer market starting in late 2017 was greeted by EV enthusiasts with a mixture of anticipation and frustration. The Model 3 rollout was plagued by numerous production delays and extraordinarily long wait times for customers who put down orders more than a year before delivery. Yet the small sports sedan has been received well by its owners, getting top marks in CR’s most recent owner satisfaction survey. It has also largely lived up to its promise as a highly competitive sports sedan, earning a respectable road-test score, which puts it not far behind the Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series.

But reliability has been a weak spot for Tesla. According to our survey results, problems with the suspension, especially with the 2017 model year, have been an issue for the Model S luxury sedan, while hardware problems—especially concerning its unique falcon-wing doors—have plagued the Model X SUV (neither is currently recommended by CR). And now our latest survey data has surfaced numerous problems reported by Model 3 owners as well, which is why CR has removed its recommendation for the vehicle.

“While Teslas perform well in Consumer Reports’ road tests and have excellent owner satisfaction, their reliability has not been consistent, according to our members, which has resulted in changes to their recommended status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.

Tesla currently holds the top spot on our list of brands that satisfy owners the most, based on their new vehicle lineup.

“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”

Model 3 owners in our spring survey sample reported some body hardware and in-car electronics problems, such as the screen freezing, which we have seen with other Tesla models. The latest survey data also shows complaints about paint and trim issues. In addition, some members reported that the Model 3’s sole display screen acted strangely.

“The touch screen would intermittently begin acting as if someone was touching it rapidly at many different points,” one member wrote in. “This fault would cause music to play, volume to increase to maximum, and would rescale and pan the map in the navigation system.”

Some owners also complained about glass defects, including cracks in the rear window, in their survey responses.

In fact, CR experienced similar problems with its own Model 3. Earlier this year, our test vehicle developed a large crack in its massive rear window during a cold spell when it was parked outside.

When the Model 3 first came out in 2017, Consumer Reports gave it an average predicted reliability score based on the survey results at the time about the Model S because the two shared much of the same technology. The car maintained its average score for predicted reliability in October 2018 based on the experiences of Model 3 owners who completed our spring survey. The new survey data shows that the car has dropped from average to below-average reliability.

Tesla’s other models have suffered from below-average reliability as well, Fisher said. The Model S sedan has had an inconsistent history, being above average, average, and below average, with each downward move following in the wake of a hardware change made by Tesla. CR members report that they have the most trouble with loose trim, frozen or blank screen display, and suspension in 2017 models.

The Tesla Model S lost CR’s recommendation in October 2018 largely because of suspension problems. Tesla made air suspension and all-wheel drive standard in its 2017 Model S.

The Model X SUV has always had below-average reliability through its lifespan, with CR members reporting problems mostly with its hardware, and with its falcon-wing doors in particular. It has never earned a CR recommendation.

By contrast, CR members have reported few problems with Tesla’s unique electric powertrains, which may be due in part to their relative simplicity when compared with traditional internal-combustion engines.

 

[ColonelRHS]

And I never said you claimed Tesla owners were making false statements. You might want to re-read my post.

JD Power surveys don't stand up to surveys made by others? Exactly what surveys are you speaking of? Toyota is rated number one in the world? Says who? And rated number one in what?

And specifically how would other car evaluations show JD Power has malice for Tesla? In post #88 above read what the JD Power executives had to say about Tesla. Does that sound like malice to you? You really think an organization like JD Power is about to risk their reputation by being anything less than objective in their surveys?

I'm very familiar with Scotty's videos. He has never once said anything whatsoever that conflicts with the results of JD Power's survey here.

Below is what CR said when they originally pulled the M3 off their recommended list. You might want to be aware of CR's long standing policy of not including a car model on their recommended lists if the model scores less than average in their reliability surveys, irrespective of how high it was rated in other aspects, including the road test. If any "so called auto experts" really called out CR for rating Tesla as unreliable (not even sure that's correct at all), then essentially what they would be saying is Tesla owners don't know what they are taking about. Sincerely doubt any "auto experts" would be foolish enough to say such a thing:

Consumer Reports can no longer recommend the newest Tesla—the Model 3 electric sedan—because members say they’ve identified a number of problems with their cars, including issues with its body hardware, as well as paint and trim. CR members reported these results in our annual reliability survey, which includes data on about 470,000 vehicles.

The Model 3 is a critical car for Tesla. It’s the automaker’s first attempt at a true mass-market electric vehicle (EV), and its long, bumpy launch into the consumer market starting in late 2017 was greeted by EV enthusiasts with a mixture of anticipation and frustration. The Model 3 rollout was plagued by numerous production delays and extraordinarily long wait times for customers who put down orders more than a year before delivery. Yet the small sports sedan has been received well by its owners, getting top marks in CR’s most recent owner satisfaction survey. It has also largely lived up to its promise as a highly competitive sports sedan, earning a respectable road-test score, which puts it not far behind the Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series.

But reliability has been a weak spot for Tesla. According to our survey results, problems with the suspension, especially with the 2017 model year, have been an issue for the Model S luxury sedan, while hardware problems—especially concerning its unique falcon-wing doors—have plagued the Model X SUV (neither is currently recommended by CR). And now our latest survey data has surfaced numerous problems reported by Model 3 owners as well, which is why CR has removed its recommendation for the vehicle.

“While Teslas perform well in Consumer Reports’ road tests and have excellent owner satisfaction, their reliability has not been consistent, according to our members, which has resulted in changes to their recommended status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.

Tesla currently holds the top spot on our list of brands that satisfy owners the most, based on their new vehicle lineup.

“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”

Model 3 owners in our spring survey sample reported some body hardware and in-car electronics problems, such as the screen freezing, which we have seen with other Tesla models. The latest survey data also shows complaints about paint and trim issues. In addition, some members reported that the Model 3’s sole display screen acted strangely.

“The touch screen would intermittently begin acting as if someone was touching it rapidly at many different points,” one member wrote in. “This fault would cause music to play, volume to increase to maximum, and would rescale and pan the map in the navigation system.”

Some owners also complained about glass defects, including cracks in the rear window, in their survey responses.

In fact, CR experienced similar problems with its own Model 3. Earlier this year, our test vehicle developed a large crack in its massive rear window during a cold spell when it was parked outside.

When the Model 3 first came out in 2017, Consumer Reports gave it an average predicted reliability score based on the survey results at the time about the Model S because the two shared much of the same technology. The car maintained its average score for predicted reliability in October 2018 based on the experiences of Model 3 owners who completed our spring survey. The new survey data shows that the car has dropped from average to below-average reliability.

Tesla’s other models have suffered from below-average reliability as well, Fisher said. The Model S sedan has had an inconsistent history, being above average, average, and below average, with each downward move following in the wake of a hardware change made by Tesla. CR members report that they have the most trouble with loose trim, frozen or blank screen display, and suspension in 2017 models.

The Tesla Model S lost CR’s recommendation in October 2018 largely because of suspension problems. Tesla made air suspension and all-wheel drive standard in its 2017 Model S.

The Model X SUV has always had below-average reliability through its lifespan, with CR members reporting problems mostly with its hardware, and with its falcon-wing doors in particular. It has never earned a CR recommendation.

By contrast, CR members have reported few problems with Tesla’s unique electric powertrains, which may be due in part to their relative simplicity when compared with traditional internal-combustion engines.

 

[ColonelRHS]

I read the J.D. Powers report. You need to look it up and read also. They surveyed around 2100 owners by telelphone In their evaluation. Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive. Their grading included paint problems, air noise, vibration, and something else which I paid no attention to. I cruised the internet and found all kinds of car magazines and evaluations and none of them come close to comparison to J.D. Powers. You are defending a questionable report, and if you would take the time to do some research you might have a different opinion. Yes, Toyota is rated number one...do some research.
U.S. News and World Report for 2020 Best Car Rankings
Motor Trend
World Car Awards 2020
Edmonds New Car
Car Indingo.com
Consumer Reports New Cars
Best Car Reviews

Just a few of many more out there on the net.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I like my 3

 

[dragonxt]

Didn't Elon clown J.D. Power on twitter for being a useless company?

Pretty sure I've also read a reddit post from a J.D. employee about them having no integrity.

But that's not to say Teslas don't have problems. They do, just wanted to point out something I thought was relevant.

Edit: Here's the post from Elon

 

[Jayson]

I read the J.D. Powers report. You need to look it up and read also. They surveyed around 2100 owners by telelphone In their evaluation. Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive. Their grading included paint problems, air noise, vibration, and something else which I paid no attention to. I cruised the internet and found all kinds of car magazines and evaluations and none of them come close to comparison to J.D. Powers. You are defending a questionable report, and if you would take the time to do some research you might have a different opinion. Yes, Toyota is rated number one...do some research.
U.S. News and World Report for 2020 Best Car Rankings
Motor Trend
World Car Awards 2020
Edmonds New Car
Car Indingo.com
Consumer Reports New Cars
Best Car Reviews

Just a few of many more out there on the net.

The bottom line is you can't accept the fact JD Power surveyed a huge number of car owners, and based on the first 90 days of ownership the Tesla owners reported by a wide margin the largest number of problems and complaints per vehicle.

As was pointed out above, every time someone like Powers or CR publishes the results of a survey like this, owners of vehicles having poor showings in the survey try to discredit the survey bu claiming the results are bogus. It's as if the owners are being personally attacked.

I'm amazed anyone who has spent time on this forum is surprised by the survey results as we constantly see reports and pictures of new Tesla owners having to repeatedly bring their cars back to Tesla to have build problems corrected during the first 90 days of ownership. Doesn't mean every owner experiences this (and some can't be bothered), but the reports seem to be never ending and they describe the same problems owners mentioned to JD Power (surprise, surprise).

You clearly don't understand the Power's report at all. You claim "Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive", but the fact is Powers has no criticism for Tesla whatsoever It's us Tesla owners that are telling them about the problems and making the complaints. All Powers does is tabulate the surveys and distribute the results.

Not sure what Toyota rankings have to do with this. Of top of that, you claim the publications you listed ranking Toyota #1, but when asked you can't even tell us what exactly they were ranked #1 in, much less explain how any of that is relevant to the JD Power survey. When you reviewed the JD Power survey did you happen to notice that multiple Toyota models were ranked very highly?

 

[Fernand]

First the traders, then the would be accountants, and now the would be legal assistants. Let's be realistic here. If there are people with cosmetic issues that's hardly on a par with functional problems with engine, transmission, brakes etc. I expect the Model Y to be the most popular car in the world pretty soon.

Wherever it might be young and sloppy, Tesla should and will improve. You could probably survey people who've never been to a Service Center but will opine, based on forum posts, that Tesla's service is poor. My Service Center experience went from meh to stellar in a year. There's a reason Tesla owners are satisfied, optimistic, and the stock is breaking free of the DJ and other averages.

I like my Model 3 a lot, in my case the QA was fine, and I think the people who had QA issues, or are prone to dissatisfaction, should get their problems promptly corrected and enjoy their car, instead of getting sucked into polemics or ammunition for the trading floor.
.

 

[CertLive]

Didn't Elon clown J.D. Power on twitter for being a useless company?

Pretty sure I've also read a reddit post from a J.D. employee about them having no integrity.

But that's not to say Teslas don't have problems. They do, just wanted to point out something I thought was relevant.

Edit: Here's the post from Elon

Well we all know how Elon can react on the fly sometimes for good or bad. Now he knows because its made bad publicity, lets see what the head of Tesla motor company is going to do about the issues he lands on his customers laps. The date is 07/07/2020 from this post will things change because now there is no excuse the top of the tree knows exactly what is going on here. If he does not well we then know profits are all and customers are cannon fodder.

 

[ColonelRHS]

The bottom line is you can't accept the fact JD Power surveyed a huge number of car owners, and based on the first 90 days of ownership the Tesla owners reported by a wide margin the largest number of problems and complaints per vehicle.

As was pointed out above, every time someone like Powers or CR publishes the results of a survey like this, owners of vehicles having poor showings in the survey try to discredit the survey bu claiming the results are bogus. It's as if the owners are being personally attacked.

I'm amazed anyone who has spent time on this forum is surprised by the survey results as we constantly see reports and pictures of new Tesla owners having to repeatedly bring their cars back to Tesla to have build problems corrected during the first 90 days of ownership. Doesn't mean every owner experiences this (and some can't be bothered), but the reports seem to be never ending and they describe the same problems owners mentioned to JD Power (surprise, surprise).

You clearly don't understand the Power's report at all. You claim "Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive", but the fact is Powers has no criticism for Tesla whatsoever It's us Tesla owners that are telling them about the problems and making the complaints. All Powers does is tabulate the surveys and distribute the results.

Not sure what Toyota rankings have to do with this. Of top of that, you claim the publications you listed ranking Toyota #1, but when asked you can't even tell us what exactly they were ranked #1 in, much less explain how any of that is relevant to the JD Power survey. When you reviewed the JD Power survey did you happen to notice that multiple Toyota models were ranked very highly?

 

[ColonelRHS]

Jason you need to sell your Tesla. With the J.D. Powers report you defend as gospel, I am sure it is keeping you up at nights and causing you to vent your anger. J.D. Powers has shown you what a terrible car Tesla is, and using a formula the included paint, air noise, vibrations, and panel gaps to get it just above the bottom last car, should tell you that you need to unload this piece of junk as soon as you can. Take the money and buy any car in the top 5 slots J.D. Powers shows are premium cars with absolutely very low problems. Tesla delivered 96000 cars and the 2100 or so people interviewed have certainly let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Do it right away before those fool investors in Tesla stock get wind of this and the shares plummet to the bottom. Be sure and put some money aside for AAA after you purchase one of those problem free premium cars.

 

[Jayson]

Jason you need to sell your Tesla. With the J.D. Powers report you defend as gospel, I am sure it is keeping you up at nights and causing you to vent your anger. J.D. Powers has shown you what a terrible car Tesla is, and using a formula the included paint, air noise, vibrations, and panel gaps to get it just above the bottom last car, should tell you that you need to unload this piece of junk as soon as you can. Take the money and buy any car in the top 5 slots J.D. Powers shows are premium cars with absolutely very low problems. Tesla delivered 96000 cars and the 2100 or so people interviewed have certainly let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Do it right away before those fool investors in Tesla stock get wind of this and the shares plummet to the bottom. Be sure and put some money aside for AAA after you purchase one of those problem free premium cars.

I have no need to defend the Power survey results, and you offer ZERO proof it's not accurate. Given the results appear to mirror what owners are reporting here on the forum, I've seen no reason to believe it's not accurate. Just because you don't like the results does not prove it's not accurate.

Because you can't possibly back up your claims with real facts, now you are resorting a personal attack claiming something is keeping me up at night and I'm angry.

And yet you completely continue to distort the facts. Power (nor anyone here on this forum AFAIK) ever said Teslas are terrible cars. In fact Power executives made some complimentary comments, but you choose to ignore them.

And just who are you to tell me what to do with my car. We are on our third Tesla, and based on our experience the comments about sloppy assembly practices are spot on. It's a PITA to have to repeatedly take the car back to Tesla again and again to get things corrected that their QC people should have caught before the cars left Fremont.

But yet we are on our third Tesla, and obviously it's because we have enjoyed the overall ownership experience. But that does not mean we must turn a blind eye to the problems we have experienced. Again, when Tesla was operating on a shoestring these issues were somewhat understandable. But Elon has had more than enough time to rectify the problem.

Claiming the Power survey has somehow let the cat out of the bag with respect to build quality problems is laughable. Not exactly new news.

 

[Runt8]

The bottom line is you can't accept the fact JD Power surveyed a huge number of car owners, and based on the first 90 days of ownership the Tesla owners reported by a wide margin the largest number of problems and complaints per vehicle.

As was pointed out above, every time someone like Powers or CR publishes the results of a survey like this, owners of vehicles having poor showings in the survey try to discredit the survey bu claiming the results are bogus. It's as if the owners are being personally attacked.

I'm amazed anyone who has spent time on this forum is surprised by the survey results as we constantly see reports and pictures of new Tesla owners having to repeatedly bring their cars back to Tesla to have build problems corrected during the first 90 days of ownership. Doesn't mean every owner experiences this (and some can't be bothered), but the reports seem to be never ending and they describe the same problems owners mentioned to JD Power (surprise, surprise).

You clearly don't understand the Power's report at all. You claim "Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive", but the fact is Powers has no criticism for Tesla whatsoever It's us Tesla owners that are telling them about the problems and making the complaints. All Powers does is tabulate the surveys and distribute the results.

Not sure what Toyota rankings have to do with this. Of top of that, you claim the publications you listed ranking Toyota #1, but when asked you can't even tell us what exactly they were ranked #1 in, much less explain how any of that is relevant to the JD Power survey. When you reviewed the JD Power survey did you happen to notice that multiple Toyota models were ranked very highly?

I don’t accept the fact that a survey that puts power train issues on the same level as someone not knowing how to work their entertainment system has any real value.

 

[ColonelRHS]

I have no need to defend the Power survey results, and you offer ZERO proof it's not accurate. Given the results appear to mirror what owners are reporting here on the forum, I've seen no reason to believe it's not accurate. Just because you don't like the results does not prove it's not accurate.

Because you can't possibly back up your claims with real facts, now you are resorting a personal attack claiming something is keeping me up at night and I'm angry.

And yet you completely continue to distort the facts. Power (nor anyone here on this forum AFAIK) ever said Teslas are terrible cars. In fact Power executives made some complimentary comments, but you choose to ignore them.

And just who are you to tell me what to do with my car. We are on our third Tesla, and based on our experience the comments about sloppy assembly practices are spot on. It's a PITA to have to repeatedly take the car back to Tesla again and again to get things corrected that their QC people should have caught before the cars left Fremont.

But yet we are on our third Tesla, and obviously it's because we have enjoyed the overall ownership experience. But that does not mean we must turn a blind eye to the problems we have experienced. Again, when Tesla was operating on a shoestring these issues were somewhat understandable. But Elon has had more than enough time to rectify the problem.

Claiming the Power survey has somehow let the cat out of the bag with respect to build quality problems is laughable. Not exactly new news.

 

[ColonelRHS]

With that huge J.D. Powers survey of 2100 owners out of ultra thousands, your belief in its accuracy is most assuring. I'm sure you went on to the sites I offered and did some reading. I'm not backing up anything against you and J.D. Powers because between you and the Powers survey, how can anyone argue against your logic and overwhelming proof. Its like sitting at the feet of Scorates. You just need to hurry up and sell that Tesla because J.D. Powers shows your car is the worst of the lot.

 

[Shark2222]

With that huge J.D. Powers survey of 2100 owners out of ultra thousands, your belief in its accuracy is most assuring. I'm sure you went on to the sites I offered and did some reading. I'm not backing up anything against you and J.D. Powers because between you and the Powers survey, how can anyone argue against your logic and overwhelming proof. Its like sitting at the feet of Scorates. You just need to hurry up and sell that Tesla because J.D. Powers shows your car is the worst of the lot.

I have a difficult time believing anyone who has been a member of this forum for more than a few weeks could really have any doubts regarding what the Power people said about what caused Tesla to rank last in the survey.

Sure, some problems are more serious than others, but if Power started making judgments about how serious one issue is versus another, no doubt you would be the first one accusing them of publishing subjective results.

Also, what's the problem with only 2100 surveys? You feel that's not statistically significant? Feels like what's really going on here is you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit JD Power.

Hopefully Elon and crew are not doing the same, and are taking the results to heart and seeing the survey as a wake up call. On second thought I have to believe they are not the least bit surprised by it, as their accountants must have started red flagging the per vehcile warranty expenses long ago.

As for the other sites/publications you offered that supposedly conflict with what Power is saying, isn't it interesting when you were asked to cite specifics, you cannot or will not. Suspect you either made it all up and they don't exist, or you are completely misrepresenting what they really say.

You may think you are fooling some of us here, but it sounds like you are merely fooling yourself.

 

[ColonelRHS]

I have a difficult time believing anyone who has been a member of this forum for more than a few weeks could really have any doubts regarding what the Power people said about what caused Tesla to rank last in the survey.

Sure, some problems are more serious than others, but if Power started making judgments about how serious one issue is versus another, no doubt you would be the first one accusing them of publishing subjective results.

Also, what's the problem with only 2100 surveys? You feel that's not statistically significant? Feels like what's really going on here is you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit JD Power.

Hopefully Elon and crew are not doing the same, and are taking the results to heart and seeing the survey as a wake up call. On second thought I have to believe they are not the least bit surprised by it, as their accountants must have started red flagging the per vehcile warranty expenses long ago.

As for the other sites/publications you offered that supposedly conflict with what Power is saying, isn't it interesting when you were asked to cite specifics, you cannot or will not. Suspect you either made it all up and they don't exist, or you are completely misrepresenting what they really say.

You may think you are fooling some of us here, but it sounds like you are merely fooling yourself.

I have a difficult time believing anyone who has been a member of this forum for more than a few weeks could really have any doubts regarding what the Power people said about what caused Tesla to rank last in the survey.

Sure, some problems are more serious than others, but if Power started making judgments about how serious one issue is versus another, no doubt you would be the first one accusing them of publishing subjective results.

Also, what's the problem with only 2100 surveys? You feel that's not statistically significant? Feels like what's really going on here is you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit JD Power.

Hopefully Elon and crew are not doing the same, and are taking the results to heart and seeing the survey as a wake up call. On second thought I have to believe they are not the least bit surprised by it, as their accountants must have started red flagging the per vehcile warranty expenses long ago.

As for the other sites/publications you offered that supposedly conflict with what Power is saying, isn't it interesting when you were asked to cite specifics, you cannot or will not. Suspect you either made it all up and they don't exist, or you are completely misrepresenting what they really say.

You may think you are fooling some of us here, but it sounds like you are merely fooling yourself.

I have a difficult time believing anyone who has been a member of this forum for more than a few weeks could really have any doubts regarding what the Power people said about what caused Tesla to rank last in the survey.

Sure, some problems are more serious than others, but if Power started making judgments about how serious one issue is versus another, no doubt you would be the first one accusing them of publishing subjective results.

Also, what's the problem with only 2100 surveys? You feel that's not statistically significant? Feels like what's really going on here is you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit JD Power.

Hopefully Elon and crew are not doing the same, and are taking the results to heart and seeing the survey as a wake up call. On second thought I have to believe they are not the least bit surprised by it, as their accountants must have started red flagging the per vehcile warranty expenses long ago.

As for the other sites/publications you offered that supposedly conflict with what Power is saying, isn't it interesting when you were asked to cite specifics, you cannot or will not. Suspect you either made it all up and they don't exist, or you are completely misrepresenting what they really say.

You may think you are fooling some of us here, but it sounds like you are merely fooling yourself.

 

[ColonelRHS]

If you read the analysis of how J. D Power scored you will see that they did not factor in the electric engine or drive. They did not score the computer. They concentrated on gaps in panels, paint problems, wind noise, and quality issues. They even got off on the fire issues that happened to some 2012 models. But out of 200 plus cars...they put Tesla next to dead last. Now a telephone survey of 2100 people, out of about 100,000 has to have a wide margin of error. I have no issue with the quality problems Tesla folks have gone through. I have long advocated, even in a letter to Tesla because I had some paint issues, that a quality control team needs to be on the assembly line, with the authority to pull a car out of production line because of quality issues and send it back for correction or scrap. A line boss would have no say in their decision. What burns me about Powers is that his entire evaluation does not make sense and I tried to urge others to seek out Automotive reports and writers and see how they score cars. So, if anyone believes the Power ratings, you are in effect saying your Tesla is a piece of junk. Now I do not intend to debate this issue any longer. Life is to short and there are too many other things to occupy my time. If you believe their report..fine....does not bother me and that is your right.