Tesla-Great electrical and mechanical engineers but poor interior and function design

[Duckjybe]

Personally I think the Nav system is fantastic. Is it perfect, no. But I just drove 2 hours in our Volt in terrible traffic and was attempting to use the onboard nav and my smart phone maps for traffic because the Volts doesn't have traffic. I must say it was a terrible and somewhat dangerous experience compared to using the large touch screen nav system on the Tesla.

Yes some other nav systems have some additional functions, but overall the Tesla nav is the best experience going and getting better all the time. I'll take the ever upgradeable Tesla Nav over a cheap GPS unit any day.

 

[wk057]

because the Volts doesn't have traffic.

Hmm. My Volt had traffic info. I'd get alerts from it all the time about alternate routes, construction/accidents/etc ahead.

 

[Duckjybe]

Hmm. My Volt had traffic info. I'd get alerts from it all the time about alternate routes, construction/accidents/etc ahead.

You had me wondering if I missed the traffic feature as I never use the Volts nav because its so cumbersome (can't even enter a destination while driving). But I do have the older infotainment system (no stitcher or Pandora) and no SiriusXM which is where the traffic info comes from I believe.

 

[wk057]

You had me wondering if I missed the traffic feature as I never use the Volts nav because its so cumbersome (can't even enter a destination while driving). But I do have the older infotainment system (no stitcher or Pandora) and no SiriusXM which is where the traffic info comes from I believe.

Ah yeah, I forgot you needed XM Traffic for it to work.

 

[ev-now]

Big software teams do not produce good software, IME in the industry and as a consumer. Many great software companies have/had policies which split groups when they became too big.
Tesla clearly has their software focus on the 'core systems' of safety, and presumably driver assist / autonomous driving. They need a team dedicated to UX, and do not seem to have one from the feedback I see here from customers.
The Nav is ridiculous, so many basic features missing and cannot be programmed remotely (plan your road trip on someone else's website then try to get the way-points into the onboard nav- please!).
And there integration with smartphones is not a leader either. Given a choice I'd have the control systems perfect, and ancillary not - but this is becoming a very competitive area - and just as people buy phones for their camers, people are starting to select cars based on their integration with the phones/music and overall UX. Tesla needs to pay attention here - it's not easy to get software right, but it's easy to get it wrong and lose the faithful.

Personally, I'd love to see Google allow Android to use a secondary display - via wifi - and use the phone that I know I will update regularly through the huge screen in the MS. Tesla concentrate on the control systems, infotainment by Google (and I guess Apple). If both companies plan on delivering the core infotainment experience through the mobile, and leverage whatever display and input the 'host' car can provide - then things can move in leaps and bounds. This also keeps the code very separate - provided infotainment is nicely sandboxed on the 'head unit' (Tesla computer) - so a bug which freezes the infotainment UI, cannot take out the control systems!

It doesn't seem to me that Apple and Google are on that path for their in-car systems - but perhaps they are ...

 

[CjRichMar]

There are a few things I wish were easier to access (sunroof controls, trunk open) and other things I was surprised are missing (text readback), but I'd still rather drive my MS than any other car on the road.

 

[AWDtsla]

...and now a thread complaining about Tesla software? I guess you guys forgot how every other car manufacturer's software is complete ****.

 

[rjcbox]

Sure, there are items that can and will improve such as nav....but...I would not trade this car for any other


(BTW, I also use Waze for navigation, it's awesome)

 

[danni]

I've never worked at a company that would have released that navigation system, and I've worked at some pretty screwed up companies!

Thing is, though - Tesla didn't develop that navigation system. They bought it from Navigon. That's why it's probably not as easy as you'd think to add new features to it, because they don't own or control the system itself. And to be honest, that kind of makes sense. Tesla are a small company, and for them to develop their own navigation solution really wouldn't have been feasible. Even the biggest car manufacturers don't do this (well, maybe you can almost say some of them do now that they've acquired Here from Nokia). It's better for Tesla to focus their limited resources on the more important aspects of the car, even if that means we're left with a less than perfect navigation experience.

Of course, allowing third party apps or CarPlay/Android Auto would remedy many of these problems, and in my opinion, that would definitely be a very sensible area for them to focus on.

 

[artsci]

I have become a little weary of Tesla software updates. They are marginal increments of Navigation, mostly new chargers, charging routes, quickest way to charging stations etc.
Why are simple features (alternate routes, avoid toll roads, etc) that are available even in the cheapest GPS gadgets not available for Model S. I love my Model S but I think Tesla is not listening to some of its customers.
My previous Lincoln MKZ or Lexus ES300 had better navigation, voice control, telephone features.
Tesla is a great car but when you pay close to 100K, gizmos and gadgets are important too, in addition to the need for speed.

And none of those cars are all electric. That's what I bought the car for, and I didn't give a hoot about gizmos and gadgets. I could just build my own

 

[mknox]

Hmm. My Volt had traffic info. I'd get alerts from it all the time about alternate routes, construction/accidents/etc ahead.

My Cadillac had traffic, but I believe it came in through XM somehow. It would give me audio (verbal) alerts for things like accidents, construction and such even if I wasn't using the Nav system. If I was using Nav, it would do the same sort of traffic based routing that the Tesla does, but I could also add waypoints, avoid certain types of roads etc.

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And none of those cars are all electric. That's what I bought the car for, and I didn't give a hoot about gizmos and gadgets. I could just build my own

I don't disagree with the sentiment, and I'll be a lot here would agree, but if we limit the scope of the conversation to the "gizmos and gadgets", Tesla really is lacking compared to other similarly priced cars. That shouldn't take away from the other very positive aspects of the car.

 

[David29]

Ford's software department is larger and has more employees than the entire Tesla manufacturing and design group combined. They are essentially a little, but fast growing auto manufacturer.
It would be unfair to ask them to keep pace with every auto manufacturer out there and have the best of everything.

I suspect that is the nub of it right there. Tesla simply does not have the depth of a larger company that can throw large numbers of engineers and developers on a task. And it also seems to have a bias towards close control of its feature set (even though it does buy some elements from other companies). I do not yet have my car, and maybe my view will change as I use it, but for now I am focused on the idea that it is a great car to drive and understand that it is not going to be as refined in some ways as the cars I have had in the past. It might be a bit easier for me to accept the car's shortcomings simply because I will be transitioning from an older car that has no navigation, no exterior sensors and thus no blind spot monitoring or touch screen, etc. At least, I hope I will continue to be excited about the car once its "newness" wears off.

 

[Vgsllc1]

Tesla Model S is as close to perfect car as we can get. It has it own limitations; voice recognition feature is not quite there yet, including some minor functionality of Nav system as you mentioned.

"Poor interior" ? I disagree with you there. Let me show you poor interior designs from good old American automakers.
Also, you can not compare a Tesla to other cheaply made American cars.

We owned many American made truck, all of them had horrible interior design, cheap plastic trim pieces that cracked, faded. Buttons, air vents, push buttons popping out.
Dash Crack Recall / Class action lawsuit | Chevy Truck Forum | GM Truck Club
2015 Lincoln MKS Interior | U.S. News Best Cars

Lincoln MKS’ interior appointments are borrowed from the Ford Taurus ?

Lincoln MKS Interior

Scorecard

Overall:	7.3
Critics' Rating:	6.4
Performance:	7.1
Interior:	7.4
Safety:	8.9
Reliability:

How we calculate scores
Research analyzed for this review

Pros & Cons

• Ample trunk space

• Less nimble than rivals
• Subpar cabin materials
• Confusing infotainment system

Research Other Years

• 2014 Lincoln MKS
• 2013 Lincoln MKS
• 2012 Lincoln MKS
• 2011 Lincoln MKS
• 2010 Lincoln MKS
• 2009 Lincoln MKS

Some automotive journalists note that many of the 2015 Lincoln MKS’ interior appointments are borrowed from the Ford Taurus, which makes the MKS seem less luxurious than rivals. However, others report that the cabin is designed with luxurious materials. Some test drivers think the MKS' front seats are comfortable and spacious, but others say the cabin can feel cramped. While a few find the back seats to be comfortable, others wish there were more legroom. Reviewers are disappointed with the MKS' hard-to-use touch-sensitive infotainment system controls, which they say can cause drivers to lose focus on the road. The Lincoln MKS has one of the largest trunks in the class.

 

[RDoc]

Thing is, though - Tesla didn't develop that navigation system. They bought it from Navigon. That's why it's probably not as easy as you'd think to add new features to it, because they don't own or control the system itself. And to be honest, that kind of makes sense. Tesla are a small company, and for them to develop their own navigation solution really wouldn't have been feasible. Even the biggest car manufacturers don't do this (well, maybe you can almost say some of them do now that they've acquired Here from Nokia). It's better for Tesla to focus their limited resources on the more important aspects of the car, even if that means we're left with a less than perfect navigation experience.

Of course, allowing third party apps or CarPlay/Android Auto would remedy many of these problems, and in my opinion, that would definitely be a very sensible area for them to focus on.

Could you supply a source for Tesla buying their navigation system that routes you hundreds of miles out of the way to visit unnecessary Superchargers, including sending you back away from your destination, from an outside company? Even if they did, I still thinkg that releasing it in its current form is indicative of a company without any commitment to quality in their software department.

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I suspect that is the nub of it right there. Tesla simply does not have the depth of a larger company that can throw large numbers of engineers and developers on a task. And it also seems to have a bias towards close control of its feature set (even though it does buy some elements from other companies). I do not yet have my car, and maybe my view will change as I use it, but for now I am focused on the idea that it is a great car to drive and understand that it is not going to be as refined in some ways as the cars I have had in the past. It might be a bit easier for me to accept the car's shortcomings simply because I will be transitioning from an older car that has no navigation, no exterior sensors and thus no blind spot monitoring or touch screen, etc. At least, I hope I will continue to be excited about the car once its "newness" wears off.

The non-critical software component is really pretty small, they don't need a large number of developers, in fact from my experience, a small team (~5-10 good developers plus some testers and a writer) would be plenty. Look at evtripplanner, that was developed by two people who weren't even working full time and puts the Tesla version to shame. My contention is that they've probably got plenty of headcount, what they need is corporate culture in their software department that matches that in the rest of the company.

 

[qwk]

Not sure I'd go this far. While the trip planner has a long way to go, it's certainly a welcome addition over 4.x. Same with auto SpC station updates, backup guidelines, etc. there is a LOT of functionality that has been added since 4.x

Can you elaborate on the specifics behind your statement?

I don't have the tech package, so the comment was mainly related to drivability, and usability of the car. The car had more regen, more power, charged at a full 40A all of the time, and there were fewer bugs. Backup lines, windshield wiper mode etc. are fine, but usability of the car matters the most to me. Instead of leaving the stuff that works fine alone, the software department mucks with those aspects of the firmware in almost every revision, while not addressing usefull things like individual tire pressure readings etc. JMHO.

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YES! YES!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The regen has been NASTY too... Even worse on the autopilot cars. The loaner I have right now.... Hesitates (at least feels like it) when it goes into regen. I suspect this is to reduce the "whiplash effect: when going into regen, but, it's completly un-intuitive. The throttle response is laggy and no longer snappy, and CANT STAND THE CHARGE CURRENT REDUCTION!!!!!!!! WHAT A PAIN IN THE BACKSIDE!

Exactly my take on it.

 

[mknox]

"Poor interior" ? I disagree with you there. Let me show you poor interior designs from good old American automakers.
Also, you can not compare a Tesla to other cheaply made American cars.

That is clearly a personal preference, and I don't think there's any "right or wrong" with respect to design. Materials and quality? Maybe. I'll come right out and say I feel the interior of my previous Cadillac CTS was superior to my Model S, but that is only one aspect of the car at the end of the day.

 

[qwk]

Have not noticed a laggy throttle response. Charge current reduction can be annoying, but it happens rarely.

Since 6.2, my current reduction happens EVERY time on EVERY outlet I use. It's more than a little annoying.

 

[GreenT]

The NAV has gotten worse since Elon pronounced "no more range anxiety".

There's never even been a scale on it.

You cannot drag a route to bypass stuff.

And worse of all ... try going from Supercharger A to B when you have plenty of reserve ... it insists you do a U turn til about halfway thinking you don't have the range.

While I'd "never" buy a different brand again, there comes a time when a product that gets worse over time, you eventually throw in the towel. Long way to go.

Met a guy on the road the other day during a cross country trip ... he told us that he uses his phone for NAV. Sad.

 

[omarsultan]

Could you supply a source for Tesla buying their navigation system that routes you hundreds of miles out of the way to visit unnecessary Superchargers, including sending you back away from your destination, from an outside company? Even if they did, I still thinkg that releasing it in its current form is indicative of a company without any commitment to quality in their software department.

The on-board SW that drives the instructions you get via the instrument cluster is from Navigon, but main navigation on the screen is their SW + Google maps
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The non-critical software component is really pretty small, they don't need a large number of developers, in fact from my experience, a small team (~5-10 good developers plus some testers and a writer) would be plenty.

As a software developer, I am surprised to see you make such a statement--the road to project hell is paved with "simple projects that a couple of developers can knock out."

The average salary for a Tesla SW engineer is ~$115K, so that 5-10 dev team is a $800K-$1.7M investment which is sizable for a startup, especially for a feature that will not really help the company move more cars (few is any buyers make their primary buying decision based on the nav SW). On the other hand, I am sure the folks anxiously awaiting autopilot features would really rather have those 5-10 engineers work on getting AP out the door.

I would guess Tesla folks feel they have gotten the SW to the point where its good enough (which it really is) and will add improvements over time. While it would be great to have everything we want now, it would be less than great if the company crashes and burns because they did a poor job managing their burn rate (which has been described as "eye watering") and their focus/prioritization--a common occurrence around here.

 

[qwk]

The NAV has gotten worse since Elon pronounced "no more range anxiety".

There's never even been a scale on it.

You cannot drag a route to bypass stuff.

And worse of all ... try going from Supercharger A to B when you have plenty of reserve ... it insists you do a U turn til about halfway thinking you don't have the range.

While I'd "never" buy a different brand again, there comes a time when a product that gets worse over time, you eventually throw in the towel. Long way to go.

Met a guy on the road the other day during a cross country trip ... he told us that he uses his phone for NAV. Sad.

I have no tech package on my car, but have had the pleasure of taking two road trips(same route) in loaner cars a year apart that had the tech package (August 14, and this August of this year). The Navigation worked seamlessly last year, and we got rerouted and lost every time this year. It was really frustrating. Tesla is going backwards in their software revisions.....