Tesla Home Charger. Redundancy. (Poll included)

[Feathermerchan]

50A AB switch:
50 Amp Transfer Switches

Pretty expensive. I chose 50A 240V manual transfer switch because I could not find any other search that worked. Any thoughts?

 

[miimura]

I use the Mobile Connector that came with the car on a NEMA 14-50 outlet. It is semi-permanently mounted with the cord zip-tied to the shelving next to the car.
If that fails, I also have a Leviton 40A J1772 EVSE that can charge the car with the provided adapter.
If that fails, I have a Gen1 Mobile Connector that has been modified to J1772 (Jesla) that I can plug into the NEMA 14-50 outlet.
If that fails, I have a Panasonic 120V J1772 EVSE that came with my RAV4 EV.

The title mentioned redundancy, so I thought I would too...

 

[RickW]

Had my Tesla Box hard wired this weekend and picked up the car the next day. Fabulous.
We ended up not going for the dual set up. My electrician thought that the load balance would be off and didn't want to chance someone accidentally running both at the same time.

It's attached to a 60 amp fuse and I am getting 48 amps fully to the M3.

As for the poll, which seems to be going really well, most of you have the Tesla Wall Charger attached to the fuse box as of voting through September 24th. I am actually very surprised by this. I was under the impression that most people would go with the cheaper approach of a NEMA 1450 or J1772 since many are offered for a significant discount with the power companies. This poll could be biased with mainly Tesla Wall Charger voters collectively finding a reason to answer the original post.

Thanks for the input from everyone. The whole journey has been amazing.

 

[Rocky_H]

As for the poll, which seems to be going really well, most of you have the Tesla Wall Charger attached to the fuse box as of voting through September 24th. I am actually very surprised by this. I was under the impression that most people would go with the cheaper approach of a NEMA 1450 or J1772 since many are offered for a significant discount with the power companies. This poll could be biased with mainly Tesla Wall Charger voters collectively finding a reason to answer the original post.

Well, there may be another simpler reason for this. Tesla gave away a lot of the wall connectors from their referral program. I've been using a 14-50 for over 5 years because back then, it was about $2,000 for the wall connector, which was in no way worth it. But I think a lot of people got free wall connectors from the referral program and moved over to that. I just got mine a couple of weeks ago, so I will be switching my wiring over to that soon.

 

[mreynolds767]

Wall Connector on a 60 amp breaker can send 48 amps to the car.
Wall connector on a 200 amp breaker can send 48 amps to the car

using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 40 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car
using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 60 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car
using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 200 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car
With the current charging kit the 14-50 adapter is not included so you have to buy that extra (think it is $35)

So above is the reason you would buy/install a Tesla Wall Connector (it is faster)

The back up plan seems totally unnecessary to me.
If you move, take down the Wall Connector and have an electrician install a Nema 14-50 plug in it's place. That would be fairly cheap to have done and a simple job for an electrician since no wiring is changing.

Important note: if you own a SR or SR+ than your car is limited to 32 amp charging no matter what, so for those owners the Wall Connector hardwired makes much less sense.
Almost need 2 polls for LR owners and SR/SR+ owners due to this distinction. I would think the smarter (due to cost) choice for a SR/SR+ owner is a 14-50 plug.

 

[Rocky_H]

What the heck?

Wall Connector on a 60 amp breaker can send 48 amps to the car.

Yes.

Wall connector on a 200 amp breaker can send 48 amps to the car

Code violation.

using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 40 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car

Yes.

using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 60 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car

Code violation.

using a Nema 14-50 plug with the connector that comes with the car on a 200 amp breaker can send 32 amps to the car

Code violation.

 

[mreynolds767]

Rocky it was to convey a point. I thought the clearest way to do that was put in some unrealistic examples of breaker size.
Techinically yes my second example for the Wall Connector should be 80 amp breaker = 48 amps to the car (same as 60 amp breaker)

And for the 14-50 plug should be a 50 AMP breaker = 32 amps to the car (same as a 40 amp breaker)

The car is limited based on the charger, the OP in his original post was under the impression the Wall Connector and 14-50 would be the same charging speed.

 

[Rocky_H]

Rocky it was to convey a point. I thought the clearest way to do that was put in some unrealistic examples of breaker size.

I get that you want to be funny or clever or whatever, but what you completely assume is "unrealistic", many of us have seen people literally do over and over, and I do not want anyone to get the idea that it is an OK thing to do. I am serious that it has been at least a dozen times on the forums that we have seen people offhandedly mention that they got their 14-50 all set up with a 60A breaker, as if that were perfectly normal, when it is in fact, a clear and obvious code violation. I swear, I think people just blindfold themselves and feel around the aisle until they grab a breaker and an outlet, and think they have it right.

 

[XLR82XS]

The Model 3's max charge rate is 48A, so you won't need anything more than a 60A breaker. I think you'll be pleased with that charge speed.

Agreed. I charge at home with the UMC in a 14-50 50-amp outlet in the garage. I get plenty of miles when plugged in at night (25-27mph)

 

[mreynolds767]

I get that you want to be funny or clever or whatever, but what you completely assume is "unrealistic", many of us have seen people literally do over and over, and I do not want anyone to get the idea that it is an OK thing to do. I am serious that it has been at least a dozen times on the forums that we have seen people offhandedly mention that they got their 14-50 all set up with a 60A breaker, as if that were perfectly normal, when it is in fact, a clear and obvious code violation. I swear, I think people just blindfold themselves and feel around the aisle until they grab a breaker and an outlet, and think they have it right.

Not funny or clever. Conveying a point that no matter how much power you supply it the car and charging device are the limiting factor so there is no additional gain by exceeding it.
From a Wall Connector you can get no more than 48 AMP. From a 14-50 plug no more than 32 AMP with the provided cable that comes with the car.

I understand your point regarding my comment though and hope most will get a licensed electrician to do the work for anything involving 220 service in their house.
For most I think 32 AMP speed is plenty for overnight charging. Is a nice bonus to have 48 AMP speed though.

 

[abasile]

As for the poll, which seems to be going really well, most of you have the Tesla Wall Charger attached to the fuse box as of voting through September 24th. I am actually very surprised by this. I was under the impression that most people would go with the cheaper approach of a NEMA 1450 or J1772 since many are offered for a significant discount with the power companies. This poll could be biased with mainly Tesla Wall Charger voters collectively finding a reason to answer the original post.

We had to pay for our Tesla Wall Connector, though I'll admit that we did get a second one for "free" through the referral program.

For months, prior to installing our Wall Connector, we were using the J-1772 charging station that we had installed back in 2011 for our LEAF. This necessitated using the J-1772 charge adapter every day. I do find it a little more convenient to just plug straight in with a Tesla plug and not have to bother with an adapter, particularly as the button on the Tesla plug will open the car's charge port. (The main justification for adding the Wall Connector, though, was to make it easier to charge both our LEAF and our Model S.)

Also, we wanted a hardwired solution because our charging stations are outdoors in the driveway; we don't have a garage. That sort of ruled out using a NEMA 14-50 outlet with a Mobile Connector.

Finally, from the standpoint of aesthetics, I think the hardwired Wall Connector looks cleanest.

 

[RickW]

Not funny or clever. Conveying a point that no matter how much power you supply it the car and charging device are the limiting factor so there is no additional gain by exceeding it.
From a Wall Connector you can get no more than 48 AMP. From a 14-50 plug no more than 32 AMP with the provided cable that comes with the car.

I understand your point regarding my comment though and hope most will get a licensed electrician to do the work for anything involving 220 service in their house.
For most I think 32 AMP speed is plenty for overnight charging. Is a nice bonus to have 48 AMP speed though.

Actually, perhaps I wrote the original post incorrectly, but I was aware of the 32 Amp limit on the 14-50.
My electrician advised me not to put the 14-50 in as a redundancy, mainly because there was no breaker space left and he
also felt it was a waste of time.

In my particular instance I wanted a charger that would support the limit of my vehicle, that of a LR AWD. My post reflects that.
I was not around when the original Model 3's came out and you are correct, the poll could be changed to reflect that point.

Although, as I stated in my previous post about the poll, I can see that the wall charger is leading, my sub conscious mind is still asserting that the 14-50 is the predominant charging that is used.

 

[mreynolds767]

Actually, perhaps I wrote the original post incorrectly, but I was aware of the 32 Amp limit on the 14-50.
My electrician advised me not to put the 14-50 in as a redundancy, mainly because there was no breaker space left and he
also felt it was a waste of time.

In my particular instance I wanted a charger that would support the limit of my vehicle, that of a LR AWD. My post reflects that.
I was not around when the original Model 3's came out and you are correct, the poll could be changed to reflect that point.

Although, as I stated in my previous post about the poll, I can see that the wall charger is leading, my sub conscious mind is still asserting that the 14-50 is the predominant charging that is used.

Yeah I think the forum skews more hardcore owners, if you polled all Model 3 owners I doubt the percentage using hardwired wall connectors would not be as high
It is a luxury to have such charging speed and convenience in your house for sure

 

[Feathermerchan]

I have installed one 6-50 and am completing another today. I bought Gen 1 UMCs so I could charge at 40A but found I don't need to and at 40A the wiring gets surprisingly warm. So I've dialed the charge rate down to 30A and even that is more than enough for me. That 30A rate will give you about 2/3 charge in 8 hours for a Model 3 LR.

 

[RickW]

Just for the record, I have the Tesla wall charger attached to the fuse box. Really makes the commute a lot easier. I set it to charge at 4 AM and the car's ready. Have to say, preparing for the car in advance was the best thing that I could have done. I know a few people who are using 120v and I really have no idea how they keep sane with the daily charging. I do believe that once home charging gets a lot cheaper, that will be the last barrier to electric cars. By the way Puget Sound Energy has a discount on their branded home chargers. The discount is significant. I think it's about $200 for the charger and installation.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the poll.

 

[abasile]

By the way Puget Sound Energy has a discount on their branded home chargers. The discount is significant. I think it's about $200 for the charger and installation.

That sounds nice, but I think it's worth at least an additional $200 to have a Tesla Wall Connector rather than having to fuss with the J-1772 adapter every time you plug in.

 

[srs5694]

That sounds nice, but I think it's worth at least an additional $200 to have a Tesla Wall Connector rather than having to fuss with the J-1772 adapter every time you plug in.

It's worth at most $95 -- the cost of Tesla's J1772 adapter. Buy a second adapter, attach it "permanently" to the J1772 handle, and you have something that is, to the owner, functionally identical to a Tesla Wall Connector, except for the ability to open the charge port door by pushing the button on the EVSE's handle vs. pushing the charge port on the car. (This assumes that the EVSE can deliver as much power to the car as the Tesla Wall Connector, which may not be a valid assumption; or that you don't care about the difference.)

I speak on this from experience. I bought a Clipper Creek HCS-40 EVSE for use with the Chevy Volt that I drove before I bought my Model 3. When I bought my Model 3, I decided it was much cheaper to buy a J1772 adapter to keep "permanently" attached to the Clipper Creek's J1772 handle than to replace the whole thing with a Tesla EVSE. The result has worked fine for me. The biggest complication was holstering the combination J1772 handle with Tesla adapter. For that, I designed and 3D printed an adapter; but printing or buying a stock Tesla holster, or simply leaving the thing hanging unholstered, would also work.

 

[davewill]

It's worth at most $95 -- the cost of Tesla's J1772 adapter. ...

I also find the "inconvenience" of the J1772 adapter to be overblown. The hardest part is unplugging and I just push the button, click the J1772 lock back in, and pull it out. Hardly requires thought. I haven't even bothered buying a second adapter, although I might yet. The truth is that unless I'm traveling, I'm most unlikely to plug into a J1772 in public...in which case I can take my adapter with me.

 

[abasile]

Buy a second adapter, attach it "permanently" to the J1772 handle, and you have something that is, to the owner, functionally identical to a Tesla Wall Connector, except for the ability to open the charge port door by pushing the button on the EVSE's handle vs. pushing the charge port on the car.

That makes sense. I guess I should add that there are a couple of factors that change the equation for me:

1. I'm plugging in an older Model S, and tapping the charge port to open it isn't an option.

2. We park the 'S' outdoors (the '3' has a carport) and everything sometimes gets covered with ice and snow, including the J-1772 adapter if in use. In winter conditions, the 'S' charge port frequently became finicky when we separated the J-1772 adapter from the handle.

Also, after a few months of winter use, the hard plastic shell of our J-1772 adapter cracked in two, without warning. Tesla was nice enough to comp us a new adapter, thankfully. Overall, perhaps I am a bit biased, having not had the most pleasant experience using the adapter day in and day out.

 

[SSonnentag]

I like redundancy, peace of mind, insurance, whatever you want to call it. I was using a NEMA 14-50 for a year or so, but the constant plugging and unplugging was wearing out the outlet. I don't like leaving home without the mobile connector, so a hardwired HPWC was my solution. Now I have the mobile connector with me at all times, with an assortment of plug adapters and I have a convenient HPWC at home that is always ready and waiting. There is also a NEMA 14-50 outlet available should I or anyone else need to connect temporarily. For me, it was definitely worth the time and expense.