"We don't actually have like a prototype or anything"
sigh....I guess I'm getting Mitsubishi heat pumps. lol
sigh....I guess I'm getting Mitsubishi heat pumps. lol
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Tesla heat pump / HVAC (non auto)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
I recommend Mitsubishi Electric (not Mitsubishi Heavy).
Extremely well made. Much better than LG, Samsung...
Don't oversize it. The smaller the better efficiency.
Run something else in extreme weather.
Extremely well made. Much better than LG, Samsung...
Don't oversize it. The smaller the better efficiency.
Run something else in extreme weather.
Natural gas heating is definitely not something that should be phased out in near future.
It is clean, very very efficient (comparable with natural gas power plant that runs heat pump at home)
and has acceptable long term footprint.
It is clean, very very efficient (comparable with natural gas power plant that runs heat pump at home)
and has acceptable long term footprint.
Better than oil, sure, but yeah not clean.
Explainer: Cleaner but not clean - Why scientists say natural gas won't avert climate disaster
Key is "Climate scientists say that rising production of natural gas "
I agree. But burning it for HEAT does not result in rising production.
Burning it to get power to run AC does due to well-to-wheel efficiency.
Everything has a place. Oil has place for plastics. Gas has place for heat.
Even peaker plants that are hardly ever used but are very important for green grid.
Just stop burning everything to get dirt-cheap electricity.
I agree. But burning it for HEAT does not result in rising production.
Burning it to get power to run AC does due to well-to-wheel efficiency.
Everything has a place. Oil has place for plastics. Gas has place for heat.
Even peaker plants that are hardly ever used but are very important for green grid.
Just stop burning everything to get dirt-cheap electricity.
Sadly, Elon spoke about it as if it's still just an idea and a heck of a long way off. I loathe my oil tanks. Please Elon drop a hint on timeline! lol
Hi @FrankSG - you mentioned HVAC not being a huge TAM in your blog:
My Tesla Investment Thesis 3: The Complete 2021 TSLA Investing Guide
I think that the report is mostly looking at the existing air conditioner and heat pumps markets. What they are missing I think is the heating aspect. UK for instance is trying to outlaw gas boilers that most brits use. Huge TAM, huge impact on climate.
My Tesla Investment Thesis 3: The Complete 2021 TSLA Investing Guide
I think that the report is mostly looking at the existing air conditioner and heat pumps markets. What they are missing I think is the heating aspect. UK for instance is trying to outlaw gas boilers that most brits use. Huge TAM, huge impact on climate.
Thanks for letting me know. Somebody else mentioned geothermal HVAC to me. I'll keep these things in mind for the future.
Martin Viecha
Thank you. The next question from investors is, since we're talking product road maps today, how do you view domestic cooling and heating in the context of accelerating the sustainable energy transition? And how might Tesla's HVAC and heat pump advances fit in?
Elon Musk
You want to talk about that, Drew?
Andrew Baglino
Yes. I think from a mission perspective, it's very aligned. If you imagine replacing natural gas, water and space heaters with electric heat pumps, it offsets something equivalent to like 80% of what a solar plus Powerwall system would offset, so it's very impactful. And we have learned a lot about how to make capable and reliable heat pumps that work in all environmental conditions and are excited about the idea of working on that problem one day. We put it that way. It's definitely aligned with our mission to transition to sustainable -- accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.
Elon Musk
Yes. I think it really becomes quite a compelling solution to the consumer where you integrate the electric vehicles charging, solar, energy storage, hot water, HVAC in a very tight compact package that also looks good. It just doesn't exist.
Andrew Baglino
Yes. I mean, the integration of those systems in a house are no different than the integration of those systems in a vehicle. The only difference is -- we do it all in the vehicle.
Elon Musk
And then, it's so constrained on mass and volume and energy. It's like -- you get the house…
Andrew Baglino
Kind of easy problem. But obviously, those systems are all just disparate and what we've been doing with Powerwall and charging solar is integrating them more and more. The next logical step is obviously HVAC and water and heating. So we will do that and we will integrate it probably better than anyone has. But as you said, we have a lot of stuff on our plate.
Elon Musk
Yes. And system integration too, with like phone, everything and the car can -- like the house can just heat and cool things because those are coming home type of thing. It still needs to be like randomly that temperature when you're not there or...
Andrew Baglino
When the cat moves.
Elon Musk
Yes, exactly. So just do sensible things and just work really, I think it would be just quite a game changer down the road. We've got a lot of fish frying on it. And so, it is a thing we will do but we're not committing to a time frame at this point.
Unidentified Company Representative
And people should do it.
Elon Musk
Yes, if somebody else wants to do it. Yes.
Unidentified Company Representative
It's super beneficial for achieving the goal here.
Thank you. The next question from investors is, since we're talking product road maps today, how do you view domestic cooling and heating in the context of accelerating the sustainable energy transition? And how might Tesla's HVAC and heat pump advances fit in?
Elon Musk
You want to talk about that, Drew?
Andrew Baglino
Yes. I think from a mission perspective, it's very aligned. If you imagine replacing natural gas, water and space heaters with electric heat pumps, it offsets something equivalent to like 80% of what a solar plus Powerwall system would offset, so it's very impactful. And we have learned a lot about how to make capable and reliable heat pumps that work in all environmental conditions and are excited about the idea of working on that problem one day. We put it that way. It's definitely aligned with our mission to transition to sustainable -- accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.
Elon Musk
Yes. I think it really becomes quite a compelling solution to the consumer where you integrate the electric vehicles charging, solar, energy storage, hot water, HVAC in a very tight compact package that also looks good. It just doesn't exist.
Andrew Baglino
Yes. I mean, the integration of those systems in a house are no different than the integration of those systems in a vehicle. The only difference is -- we do it all in the vehicle.
Elon Musk
And then, it's so constrained on mass and volume and energy. It's like -- you get the house…
Andrew Baglino
Kind of easy problem. But obviously, those systems are all just disparate and what we've been doing with Powerwall and charging solar is integrating them more and more. The next logical step is obviously HVAC and water and heating. So we will do that and we will integrate it probably better than anyone has. But as you said, we have a lot of stuff on our plate.
Elon Musk
Yes. And system integration too, with like phone, everything and the car can -- like the house can just heat and cool things because those are coming home type of thing. It still needs to be like randomly that temperature when you're not there or...
Andrew Baglino
When the cat moves.
Elon Musk
Yes, exactly. So just do sensible things and just work really, I think it would be just quite a game changer down the road. We've got a lot of fish frying on it. And so, it is a thing we will do but we're not committing to a time frame at this point.
Unidentified Company Representative
And people should do it.
Elon Musk
Yes, if somebody else wants to do it. Yes.
Unidentified Company Representative
It's super beneficial for achieving the goal here.
SalisburySam
Active Member
- It is very easy to make an announcement.
- It is fairly easy to develop a prototype.
- It is somewhat easy to build several one-off prototypes for testing and investor excitement.
- It is really hard to go from several prototypes to mass production.*
- It is exceptionally hard to go from mass production to competitive (national/local code updates, sales/distribution/installation/service in place, acceptance by the marketplace).
Going from step 1 to Step 5 is likely a looooong time, and lots of things are stymied by Step 4. I would opine Tesla HVAC is generously at Step 2, so those needing HVAC installs in the next 2-3 years will likely need to look at existing providers, imo, maybe much longer, maybe never. Elon is one of the few product developers who actually can get from Step 3 to Step 4 but there is a condition: he has to be committed to it. As has been the case with other announcements, his mind and passions can wander.
Further Carmack tweets above in the thread:
Is Elon thinking of including carbon capture in a Tesla HVAC? Makes sense.
Is Elon thinking of including carbon capture in a Tesla HVAC? Makes sense.
Move to R32, use bigger coils with larger surface area, use a bigger fan to blow more air past it, clean your coils regularly....
