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Tesla, IBM, Stanford, & PNNL Lead Obama’s Battery500 EV Battery Initiative

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by ZachShahan, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Tesla, IBM, Stanford, & PNNL Lead Obama’s Battery500 EV Battery Initiative


    As I’ve written many times, I think the #1 barrier to quicker electric car (and electric bus) adoption is simply lack of awareness / lack of experience. That said, despite the many technological, societal, and consumer benefits of electric cars, there are two remaining technological hurdles that can limit adoption for a significant number of people.

    The first regards charging speed, and that is being tackled by the White House with its target to achieve 350 kW, 10-minute EV fast charging; its workplace charging initiative; its $4.5 billion for EV charging loan guarantees; its “FAST Act process” to identify and streamline development of EV charging corridors across the United States; and other initiatives.

    On the battery front, the US Department of Energy (DOE) has been working to bring down battery costs for the past few years, and the press release notes that EV battery prices dropped 70% in the past 8 years, but the aim is to put the price drop into ludicrous mode (okay, maybe not ludicrous mode, but the White House is certainly stepping on the pedal). The aim is to get below $100/kWh soon in order to really accelerate the clean transport rEVolution.

    Here are the specific targets of the new White House / Department of Energy initiative:

    “The Battery500 Consortium aims to triple the specific energy (to 500 WH/kg) relative to today’s battery technology while achieving 1,000 electric vehicles cycles. This will result in a significantly smaller, lighter weight, less expensive battery pack (below $100/kWh) and more affordable EVs.”

    4 DOE National Laboratories and 5 universities are involved in Battery500, but I found it particularly interesting that the advisory board consists of Tesla and IBM, as well as Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) and Stanford University, which are both research partners as well.

    The other partner labs and universities (not on the advisory board) are:

    • Brookhaven National Laboratory
    • Idaho National Laboratory
    • SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory
    • Binghamton University (State University of New York)
    • University of California, San Diego
    • University of Texas at Austin
    • University of Washington
    The team as a whole will receive up to $10 million a year for 5 years.

    Not too shabby. And I think it’s promising that Tesla is on the advisory board, since the Silicon Valley company is leading the industry in the EV battery space, now has Jeff Dahn on board, and is obviously very keen to see research feed into practical solutions and real-world improvements in battery technology.

    I’m also curious how it is IBM is on the advisory board. Beyond the simple fact that IBM has plenty of products using batteries, do you have any thoughts on its involvement here?

    Coming back to historical battery prices and how they’ve dropped in recent years, below a graph I love (from our “Electric Car Answers” page). It was originally published in 2015 as part of a study of battery price trends up through 2014 (the stidy was published in the journal Nature Climate Change), and revised it slightly in May 2016.

    [​IMG]


    Cost estimates and future projections for electric vehicle battery packs, measured in $US per kilowatt hour of capacity. Each mark on the chart represents a documented estimate reviewed by the study. But I added the last circle regarding Tesla’s most recent statement. Source: Nykvist et al. (2015).



    Could we get to $100/kWh EV batteries by 2020?
     
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  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    This graph makes me vertiginous, so I'll only conclude that analysts 1, do not have a clue; and 2, live in an echo chamber.
     
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  3. KJD

    KJD Member

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    You know I really wish I could get excited about this project but it really does not do it for me. Tesla can and will reduce the charge time of the batteries and they can do this all on their own. No tax dollars needed, it will happen anyway. The current charge time also is really not as bad as most people think. Most of my charging is at home when I am sleeping, so who cares how long it takes. When on a road trip and I stop the car is often ready to go before I am.

    As far as the cost of the batteries going down that is also already happening. The giga factory is not even open yet and it may take 6 months or a year for it to reach full production. It will take at least that long to see what the true cost of the batteries is going to be. My guess is that the price a year from now is going to be much lower than last year and lower than today even.

    If the feds really wanted to speed up the transition to EV's they could spend 4.5 billion on shutting down all these stinking, smoke belching coal fired power plants we have running right now and build lots of wind mills to replace them. That would reduce the cost of electricity and reduce the carbon going into the air all the while making EV's more attractive. Europe is building offshore wind like crazy and here in the US we have almost nothing offshore where the wind is strongest and most consistent. Now there is a problem that needs fixing.
     
  4. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Renewables = 99% Of New Electricity Capacity In Q1 2016 In USA (CleanTechnica Electricity Reports)
    The feds are causing a massive shutdown of coal plants and growth of renewables. Just 3 of many stories on these topics:

    Renewables = 99% Of New Electricity Capacity In Q1 2016 In USA (CleanTechnica Electricity Reports)

    Coal’s Collapse Commences … & Conservative “Concern” For Coal Workers Explained

    http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/reduce-emissions/what-is-the-clean-power-plan#.V5TvmpPmuko

    The White House isn't going to ignore transportation just because it is working on clean electricity.

    And better to have $50 million go into cutting EV battery costs (with Tesla on the advisory board) than just about anything I can think of other than direct subsidies (which Congress would have to approve).
     
  5. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    IBM has had a Silicon Valley research group trying to make a breakthrough on Lithium-Air battery technology for several years. Their goal is a 500 mile battery for passenger cars and the project name is "Battery 500" -- the same as the new DOE initiative.

    An Electric Car Battery That Will Get You From Paris to Brussels and Back

    IBM - The Battery 500 Project - United States
     
  6. cscuilla

    cscuilla New Member

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    Looks like DOE's Energy Hub at ANL and IBM's Li-Air developments are failing - Let's throw money money at the problem.
     
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  7. cscuilla

    cscuilla New Member

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    If you dislike my previous statement - please tell me why?

    Chemical Battery Cell Manufacturing is very different from battery pack construction. Tesla made a very wise choice of cell for the Roadster - they engineered the battery pack with safety trades being first - field experience has proven them right. The GigaFactory is the next leap - we will see that in the next few years. Moving away from the standard 18650 size is brilliant. I am glad to see that they (Tesla) are on the list for DOE's new Battery500 group.
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Successful Basic Research -- ALL Basic Research -- takes time and money, and always has a history of false starts and failures.
     
  9. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    ANL and it's offshoots, in my opinion, are some of the most successful research groups of the past century. I have no problem with throwing money at them. Frankly, they've already earned it.
     
  10. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    From all the noises we hear from Tesla $100/kWh seems doable by 2020 at the cell level once GF becomes fully operational and humming along.

    At the pack level, not sure. Might take a bit longer
     

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