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Tesla in negotiations with Samsung

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Jackl1956, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Jackl1956

    Jackl1956 Member

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    I read that Tesla is in negotiations with Samsung to supply batteries. Does anyone have any more information on this? I'm wondering what impact this may have on Q2 guidance.
     
  2. FredTMC

    FredTMC Model S VIN #4925

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    No info here. Just commentary. Seems logical given Elon's comments at Teslive that they'll need to clamor to lock up a lot of battery supply for gen III scaling. Elon said that battery supply is their major scaling constraint for Gen III.
     
  3. pGo

    pGo Member

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  4. Jackl1956

    Jackl1956 Member

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  5. jak

    jak Member

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    I think it is very wise for Tesla to seek out and qualify additional suppliers that meets their specifications. Disrupting a single-sourced part critical to their business can be risky business. i.e. Panasonic battery factory blows up or earthquake in the region. Of course, it also incurs some risk, too, such as variances in quality and materials. It's all part of the fun for supply chain management, which from Elon's previous interviews, they had problems with earlier in the cycle (i.e. running down to Fry's to get USB cables?!). I'm sure Elon has learned the value of a well-managed supply chain. :smile:
     
  6. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    In Tesla's 2012 10-K annual report they mention:

    " For example, while several sources of the battery cell we have selected for our battery packs are available, we have fully qualified only two suppliers for these cells."

    That second supplier may have been Samsung all along.
     
  7. Jackl1956

    Jackl1956 Member

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    My hope is that this negotiation contributes to the progress of improving gross margin. Maybe we'll hear some specific guidance in the Q2 press conference.
     
  8. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

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    Not super thrilled with this. Samsung has demonstrated that they have no problem with taking their supply role and becoming direct competitors (or at least somehow accelerating your competitors)
     
  9. araxara

    araxara S-P85#3,218 X-90D#3,299

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    Yes, I agree, unless Tesla enters into some kind of exclusive agreement with them.
     
  10. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    Seems to me it would be a smart move to work together win Panasonic to set up a battery factory in the US, preferably close to the Fremont factory. That would get rid of the Canadian import tax too.
     
  11. pGo

    pGo Member

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    I don't agree as much. Consider battery as display units in cell phones. You just need tones of them. Many suppliers would give you a few things. 1) Price bargain power 2) Supply stability just when you want to ramp up production, but one is not yet ready.

    2) above is a big thing. What if Gen 3 is coming a year earlier. What if Panasonic only accounted for batteries for only 20K cars this year. If Elon keeps saying the constraint is production, and also his hint at TESLIVE about battery production plants in masses, he's doing the right thing.

    I don't see a fear of Samsung supplying battery to anyone else. The content and cell format has been patented by Tesla. Samsung is merely used to get the cells ready just like Panasonic. Talk about scale, Samsung would offer Elon a cheaper solution. Samsung already builds battery for its phones. Beauty is that they build almost everything in house. They are the master of production cheaply and I really think this deal should work out.

    This news is a bullish sign. Everything else bullshit.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    That didn't stop Samsung and Google from copying Apple in spite of Apple's patents and copyrights. However, there's probably no help for it. Tesla needs multiple suppliers and those suppliers need to be big enough and have enough quality control to deliver the correct product.
     
  13. Jackl1956

    Jackl1956 Member

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    Competition from copycats

    Competition is inevitable. There are 92 brands of corn flakes at my local grocery. Tesla Motors is a disruptive force setting the bar very high. While there will certainly be competition, it'll be years away. The Supercharging Network will be an incredible moat to cross.
     
  14. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    I'm torn, but in general, as an investor in TM, I'm happy they'll have a 2nd supplier but it brings pros/cons. The obvious pro being more supply as Panasonic might be at its limit and not able to ramp up as fast as needed without major capitol spend. And several more pros but a big con is keeping relations in good standing so I hope TM is forthright about needing a 2nd supplier with Panasonic.

    Samsung as a company, is a strong competitor and seems to play nice with Panasonic. They have a history of joint ventures and successful outcomes but there has been litigation so treading lightly would be in order.

    In a perfect world having a 2nd battery supplier with global reach, a track record of process innovation, industry leading high quality manufacturing methods and stable long term contract deliverables is key to TM getting to GenIII. Battery production in the country of final sale would also be ideal to avoid import tarrifs.
     
  15. tander

    tander Member

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    The pros far outweigh the cons when is comes to having multiple suppliers. You don't want to have orders for 50,000 cars and then find out that your one and only supplier can't deliver for some reason and then have to go out and find another supplier. You want to already have other suppliers that are quickly able to meet your demand. Otherwise you lose orders, momentum, reputation, and share prices tumble.
     
  16. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Samsung is the world's #2 cell supplier, so logical go-to for second supplier after #1 Panasonic. However, they are selling a Samsung-Kia EV in Korea, so they likely will treat Tesla just like they did Apple. Caveat Emptor!

    GSP
     
  17. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member

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    I don't see the danger that clearly. Tesla mods the packs in house. While they may talk specific chemisty with Samsung, there is no real advantage to Samsung over another competitor that buys a Model S to take apart and study IP.

    Samsung will simply be selling batteries. How exactly those batteries will be used will not be shared with Samsung (or Panasonic for that matter)
     
  18. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    +1. What comes from Panasonic and Sumsung are commodities. IP is added at Tesla. I see greater risk in the supply chain.
     
  19. Benz

    Benz Active Member

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    A battery cell factory just next to the Tesla Motors factory in Fremont would be great indeed.
     
  20. sleepyhead

    sleepyhead Active Member

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    Signing a deal with Samsung is nothing but positive.
     

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