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Cue, you should send a mail to Elon. He's the one responsible for this charade.
Where is Martin when one needs him?
Where is Martin when one needs him?
I have read it a number of times. You are correct everything can change. UP until the time you LOCK IN!!! Then change is limited by the laws of your state.
As an attorney that deals with plenty of consumer disputes, I'd rather represent the buyer than Tesla, because the buyer's position is stronger. I have not read the contract, but there are plenty of Consumer Sales Practices Act violations (which most states have adopted) that could zing Tesla. Tesla had also better watch treble damages. Then touching on common law, it is just not equitable for Tesla to retain a client's funds, make promises, and then renege. Equity would also wack Tesla.
I hope that there is not future litigation, but part of me also wants to see a suit, because it would prevent Tesla (and other manufacturers) from doing this. Lawyers do act as watchdogs, regardless of our reputations.
I hope that there is not future litigation, but part of me also wants to see a suit, because it would prevent Tesla (and other manufacturers) from doing this. Lawyers do act as watchdogs, regardless of our reputations.
Seeing all of these price increases ( 92, 98, 109, 125 and now this one of essentially another 10K) leads me to one sigular conclusion.
I will not be buying a Model S until I can walk into the dealer and buy one for cash and walk out with the car the same day. I am quite appreciative of all those who have spent their money to help the company succeed BUT for the average Joe like me that is simply not going to fly.
This also leads me to think that when Daryl said he left for differences of opinion that this might have been coming for a little longer than we thought. I personally have been a little hard on Daryl but I do respect him and I have not seen him do anything as down right dispicable as this. I wish communications from him had been more forth right and timely but I am sure his hands were tied as to what he could and could not say and when he could say it.
I think this move is going to VERY far reaching consequences and that Elon made a REALLY dumb move here. Much of my suppor tfor this Company has gone out the window completely. I may still buy their product (Model S) but it will no longer be for the principle of it. I will buy the car if it is the best car for the best price and no more. So all I have to say is that Model S better be the best damn car on the market or NO SALE.
This incident has been the turning point for me. And I am sure that many others will follow. SAD.
I will not be buying a Model S until I can walk into the dealer and buy one for cash and walk out with the car the same day. I am quite appreciative of all those who have spent their money to help the company succeed BUT for the average Joe like me that is simply not going to fly.
This also leads me to think that when Daryl said he left for differences of opinion that this might have been coming for a little longer than we thought. I personally have been a little hard on Daryl but I do respect him and I have not seen him do anything as down right dispicable as this. I wish communications from him had been more forth right and timely but I am sure his hands were tied as to what he could and could not say and when he could say it.
I think this move is going to VERY far reaching consequences and that Elon made a REALLY dumb move here. Much of my suppor tfor this Company has gone out the window completely. I may still buy their product (Model S) but it will no longer be for the principle of it. I will buy the car if it is the best car for the best price and no more. So all I have to say is that Model S better be the best damn car on the market or NO SALE.
This incident has been the turning point for me. And I am sure that many others will follow. SAD.
graham
Active Member
This incident has the POTENTIAL for being a turning point for me too... but since this all came out at the end of a week much of the company was away - I am still waiting for more official word on this before I say much about it. This seems too poorly thought to be the final word.
I am hoping they come back and say "We spoke in error. We weren't thinking - our bad. We do really love you guys. It was Jim the Intern's mistake. He has been punished. Bad Jim."
I'm in the same boat as you Kevin. I had always thought I'd buy a Model S even though that is stretching what I might consider spending on a car a lot outside my comfort zone. [As a side note how many percentages of the value of your house/condo would you spend on a car?] I've been convincing myself that this is going to be the right thing to do, for several reasons. First since the car should be a great one, second because I want to support the EV cause and thirdly because I like the Tesla company for their attitude towards EVs. Point 3 now is getting some serious blows, and of course I am VERY price sensitive, so in my case if something similar happens with Model S regardless of how they handle it, they might end up blowing my budget.
I'll let Tesla make a public statement about this before I pass judgement, but the Model S better be bloody marvelous if they want to maintain a firm supporter.
Cobos
Wow, that was one heck of a mistake! A mass emailing with Elon Musk's Signature line. And also it takes little to no reading between the lines of Tom Saxton's blog linked in the first post of this thread to determine that he felt forced to accept the new terms and prices if he wanted his car to enter production.
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Well, I may be simplifying this, but if you have a problem with the price raises you should call. If we got enough people to call it might make a difference. Atleast one person will have the guts to say they made a mistake, and if they saw it as a problem to future business they would definetely change there minds. At the very least they could make it so the people that locked in don't have to pay for the price raises.
That is approximately what I think will happen. They will get more flack for a few days, they might even get a legal complaint proposed. Elon will talk with his lawyer, his lawyer will tell him that they don't have a defense for the locked customers.
The weakest issue is the HPC. Tesla promised that in writing too many times. It was included in the deal for people at $92,000 and $98,000.
They can likely get away with changing the wheels. I don't think that was ever mentioned in writing.
This excerpt is from a 2008 Model Spec Sheet I have in my files. It is under Standard Exterior Features
Along with this line
graham
Active Member
The mass mailing from Elon merely states that they have new options available and the old options are at higher prices for new purchases. It never says that they plan to force those prices onto people already locked in.
It is not a mistake to offer new services, nor to raise the price of existing ones. The mistake is in forcing those changes on people who are already locked in, and making substitutions to give them a lesser product than what they thought they were buying. These people have been waiting for 2 years and have invested a lot to pull a bait and switch now.
I separately believe it is a mistake to not allow early owners the chance to upgrade to the Sport or other new options without making them first pay the price difference for the 2009 (and its subsequent unbundling as well). But this mistake is forgivable, the former is not.
graham
Active Member
The Truth About Cars has picked up the Autoblog Green story:
$112,000 for the Power Cord; Tesla Roadster for Free | The Truth About Cars
There is a very small window for Tesla to fix this before it hits major news. Once that happens, even if this does get fixed it will be difficult to recover.
$112,000 for the Power Cord; Tesla Roadster for Free | The Truth About Cars
There is a very small window for Tesla to fix this before it hits major news. Once that happens, even if this does get fixed it will be difficult to recover.
Graham, I dont happen to be on the waiting list for anything of Tesla, and I know you happen to be. That means you will have a little more influence then I will. I am begging you or someone else to PLEASE call, and tell them this is going to be the biggest PR disaster in their history if they don't fix it now.
Tim M
Member
James: "Based on my VIN # and the timing of when I made my deposit, I don't qualify."
Yeah, I don't qualify either, but this speaks to a larger issue for me and that's integrity. It has been stated here already and I won't rehash it.
I was leaning toward canceling my reservation and have now done so. Mostly the financial climate has pushed me to this sad choice but this is really the icing on the cake that tells me I did the right thing. I wasn't happy when the spec sheet for the 2009 was changed after I had made my "full" deposit. Yes, I did read the contract and changes are allowed without notice. It just makes me wonder about their understanding of what's right and wrong and how that might affect me as a customer of theirs in the future.
Anyone named Tim or Tom want to buy a CA personalized plate?
Tim
Yeah, I don't qualify either, but this speaks to a larger issue for me and that's integrity. It has been stated here already and I won't rehash it.
I was leaning toward canceling my reservation and have now done so. Mostly the financial climate has pushed me to this sad choice but this is really the icing on the cake that tells me I did the right thing. I wasn't happy when the spec sheet for the 2009 was changed after I had made my "full" deposit. Yes, I did read the contract and changes are allowed without notice. It just makes me wonder about their understanding of what's right and wrong and how that might affect me as a customer of theirs in the future.
Anyone named Tim or Tom want to buy a CA personalized plate?
Tim
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graham
Active Member
I am waiting to hear back from them. I tried to get some sort of confirmation late last week (admittedly in a back channel) but failed. I am trying a more direct route today - but it is a holiday weekend here.
I know of at least 3 other owners who are in the process of doing the same. I would be surprised if we don't concretely know what the new policy is within the next 24 to 48 hours or so.
It was in writing and based on Tom's production number versus my locked in production slot I would guess that I am among over 200 people affected by this.
I have never sued anyone, but this a major issue of principle. I locked in on a contract that indicated I stood to lose my $50,000 deposit if I did not take the vehicle listed. I have a copy of my lock-in that includes selected options with prices and a total balance due which only excludes taxes and state fees. My understanding of my state's consumer protection laws would lead me to believe that this contract would not be considered unidirectional.
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