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The final cut of the 8th episode of the Tesla Motors Club Podcast, featuring Balazs Biro, of the prominent Hungarian EV channel Villanyautósok, is now available. You can watch it now on YouTube or listen to it on all major podcast networks.
Tesla investor car crash thread
- Thread starter EinSV
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Hard to believe, but it’s possible some of the reported details about the crash may be incorrect.
This article covers a lot of the false issues about the fire: Woodlands fire chief says Tesla fire example of new technology causing issues
It also mentions that the car was wedged between two trees, which could possibly be why the driver had to crawl in to the back to try to get out:
It also mentions that the car was wedged between two trees, which could possibly be why the driver had to crawl in to the back to try to get out:
When a Tesla crashes (defined by e.g. deployment of airbags) does it then attempt to automatically upload data related to the crash?
Let's further assume that the Tesla catches fire destroying all storage devices within e.g. a minute of the crash.
How much and what kind of data would the car then attempt to upload in that time frame?
Let's further assume that the Tesla catches fire destroying all storage devices within e.g. a minute of the crash.
How much and what kind of data would the car then attempt to upload in that time frame?
Teslarati - this morning: Fire Chief Debunks Media Coverage of Tesla Crash
Excerpt of fire chief's comments:
“With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage.
“We could not tear it apart or move it around to get ‘final extinguishment’ because the fact that we had two bodies in there and it was then an investigation-slash-crime scene. We had to keep it cool, were on scene for four hours, but we were simply pouring a little bit of water on it. It was not because flames were coming out. It was a reaction in the battery pan. It was not an active fire,” Buck said.
“We did not (call Tesla), and I do not know where (that rumor) came from. There is a chance someone else did, maybe the Harris County Fire Marshal, but we did not call (Tesla). Tesla has an emergency manual for first responders,”
“The first calls that came in were a fire in the woods. Then we got at 9:30 p.m. where we got the first call when someone said, ‘I see a car in a tree, and it is on fire. They reported a car hit a tree, and it had exploded… That is when we added extra units (to the response). There is a big lake, and (the accident) was just to the left of the lake, closer to the exiting part of the street, not the end of the cul de sac. It was at an undeveloped lot.
“(The Tesla) was heavily involved in flames. When the fire was put out, it was noticed there were two bodies (inside), and they were deceased. They continued extinguishment of the woods around (the car), putting out the trees and pine needles and what have you. I was there probably five to 10 minutes after that and at that point, every once in a while, the (battery) reaction would flame and it was mainly keeping water pouring on the battery,” Buck explained, adding that this was a process recommended by Tesla in cases of burning batteries.
Excerpt of fire chief's comments:
“With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage.
“We could not tear it apart or move it around to get ‘final extinguishment’ because the fact that we had two bodies in there and it was then an investigation-slash-crime scene. We had to keep it cool, were on scene for four hours, but we were simply pouring a little bit of water on it. It was not because flames were coming out. It was a reaction in the battery pan. It was not an active fire,” Buck said.
“We did not (call Tesla), and I do not know where (that rumor) came from. There is a chance someone else did, maybe the Harris County Fire Marshal, but we did not call (Tesla). Tesla has an emergency manual for first responders,”
“The first calls that came in were a fire in the woods. Then we got at 9:30 p.m. where we got the first call when someone said, ‘I see a car in a tree, and it is on fire. They reported a car hit a tree, and it had exploded… That is when we added extra units (to the response). There is a big lake, and (the accident) was just to the left of the lake, closer to the exiting part of the street, not the end of the cul de sac. It was at an undeveloped lot.
“(The Tesla) was heavily involved in flames. When the fire was put out, it was noticed there were two bodies (inside), and they were deceased. They continued extinguishment of the woods around (the car), putting out the trees and pine needles and what have you. I was there probably five to 10 minutes after that and at that point, every once in a while, the (battery) reaction would flame and it was mainly keeping water pouring on the battery,” Buck explained, adding that this was a process recommended by Tesla in cases of burning batteries.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I don't know but if the 12V battery is damaged and the HV contactors open there is no power.
I honestly think that it is far more likely the driver crawled to the backseat to try and escape--perhaps the fire started at the front of the vehicle? It's unfortunate the two people lost their lives, and the crash must have been pretty harsh to have that happen to them. Tesla is after all a wonderful vehicle with lots of safety features.
Right - this would assume that multiple components would be working after the crash and that the area had cell-reception (but being in a residential neighborhood there probably was).
This account generally knows what they are talking about when it comes to Tesla hardware and software:
"The black box that is the EDR (http://edr.tesla.com) does not record AP state indeed, the amount of data there is tiny (but accelerator and steering position is there) But on top of that Tesla also has "gateway" with more data and autopilot with even more data all transfer OTA"
- and further -
"OTA data is not realtime. But when an "event" happens (airbag deploy) a back-looking buffer is packed up and sent, in parallel from multiple systems. Assuming 12V is intact. could be nothing to very little to full 10 seconds with videofootageon top of minutes of telemetry"
I don’t think we really need black box info. What we know that nobody in the media seems to want to point out makes it obvious there was a 3rd person driving.
NHTSA test cars for front, side, and pole impact at 40mph. AFAIK none have ever caught fire. Tesla has a 5 star rating for these.
The speed limit in that neighborhood is 25mph and there are signs.
“IF” AP could be engaged it would not likely go over 45mph in most extreme case. That is not instant death or instant fire speed.
Searching for “Tesla battery fire crash” one thing is in common. Very high speed, 100mph speed. That would require a person driving.
“IF” AP had been tricked there should be a metal seat belt ring on the right side of the driver seat. Seems like a simple check for authorities to do.
The BiL says he saw them leave and the car crashed soon after, but he did not hear it or see it? If I see a car go off and the driver get in the passenger seat I am staying around to watch. Sus.
2 dudes go for a ride to show off a car and leave a third dude standing to watch them leave? Sus
You want to show off AP and you choose that short stretch of road with a cul-de-sac to do it and not a highway? Sus
Why did the call to the FD say there were trees on fire and not a car crash? How long had the car been crashed before anyone called? Sus.
I know who I would be checking for bruising.
NHTSA test cars for front, side, and pole impact at 40mph. AFAIK none have ever caught fire. Tesla has a 5 star rating for these.
The speed limit in that neighborhood is 25mph and there are signs.
“IF” AP could be engaged it would not likely go over 45mph in most extreme case. That is not instant death or instant fire speed.
Searching for “Tesla battery fire crash” one thing is in common. Very high speed, 100mph speed. That would require a person driving.
“IF” AP had been tricked there should be a metal seat belt ring on the right side of the driver seat. Seems like a simple check for authorities to do.
The BiL says he saw them leave and the car crashed soon after, but he did not hear it or see it? If I see a car go off and the driver get in the passenger seat I am staying around to watch. Sus.
2 dudes go for a ride to show off a car and leave a third dude standing to watch them leave? Sus
You want to show off AP and you choose that short stretch of road with a cul-de-sac to do it and not a highway? Sus
Why did the call to the FD say there were trees on fire and not a car crash? How long had the car been crashed before anyone called? Sus.
I know who I would be checking for bruising.
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MartinAustin
Active Member
It's my assumption that it was a totally normal and not particularly wise launch demo w/ 2 guys in the front seats, that went awry and ended in the crash. The electrics of the car were damaged and the doors would not open. The driver came to (if there had been unconciousness), and couldn't open the front door. Crawled in the back and didn't know about the emergency pull cable. (Almost nobody knows about it) They perished ☹
(Nothing to do with Autopilot but the media won't inaccuracy get in the way of a ratings bonanza)
(Nothing to do with Autopilot but the media won't inaccuracy get in the way of a ratings bonanza)
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
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Texas police to demand Tesla crash data as Musk denies Autopilot use
Texas police will serve search warrants on Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) on Tuesday to secure data from a fatal vehicle crash, a senior officer told Reuters on Monday, after CEO Elon Musk said company checks showed the car's Autopilot driver assistance system was not engaged.
Except the “eye witness” that says he saw the driver move over to passenger side and apparently could not be bothered to wait 20 seconds to see if they made it around the cul-de-sac.
KRPC-TV - updated today: Tesla Crash
Excerpt:
The owner, he said, backed out of the driveway, and then may have hopped in the back seat only to crash a few hundred yards down the road.
A few hundred yards. Would you wait to see what happened? Where would you have to be to not hear the crash? I heard a crash four houses away (from inside my house) where a car hit a tree. And they backed out and drove away.
MartinAustin
Active Member
"The owner, he said, backed out of the driveway, and then may have done something that no other Tesla owner - including all the enthusiasts - has ever done or been able to do"
MartinAustin
Active Member
I found this one, from Comcast-owned NBC, to be one of the worst examples of creating confusion, rather than eliminating it -
A quick review of the amazing number of Comcast's TV channels that are happy to run commercials from carmakers can be found here: List of assets owned by Comcast - Wikipedia
Obviously, Tesla isn't providing any revenue to those channels
Obviously, Tesla isn't providing any revenue to those channels
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Artful Dodger
"Ducimus, lit"
Yeah, turns out that "authority" that the Media likes to quote, Constable Mark Herman (the one who first tweeted his "100% confidence" that the drivers seat was empty), is NOT even a member of the police unit which has jurisdiction over the accident scene. Indeed, he may not have even been PRESENT at the scene of the accident:
TriTexan on Twitter: "So I have some new/additional information regarding the Tesla crash and fire here in the Woodlands/Spring Texas this past weekend. @WholeMarsBlog @bonnienorman @iamtomnash @garyblack00 @jpr007 Please pass along/retweet to keep the rest of the Tesla community informed." / Twitter
Some major points to note from this @TriTexas twitter thread:
The source of this twitter thread is @TriTexan who is a long-time Tesla investor, supporter, and social media commenter on DISQUS forums (I know him from the Semi/Roadster reveal days). TriTexas is also a local and a resident of The Woods (near Houston), and lives quite close to the crash scene. He also has personal contacts inside the local police department. I rate his opinions as being highly credible.
More to follow as it becomes available.
TriTexan on Twitter: "So I have some new/additional information regarding the Tesla crash and fire here in the Woodlands/Spring Texas this past weekend. @WholeMarsBlog @bonnienorman @iamtomnash @garyblack00 @jpr007 Please pass along/retweet to keep the rest of the Tesla community informed." / Twitter
Some major points to note from this @TriTexas twitter thread:
- the Precinct 4 Constable's office wasn't even the responding agency to the 911 calls or the scene of the accident
- the agency with jurisdiction was the Montgomery County Sheriff (confirmed by the location of the accident)
- although Const. Herman is quoted in the news, it wasn't his role to respond to the accident
- one Officer who is actually investigating the accident turns out to be a Tesla owner (they will be familiar with Autopilot)
- OPs contacts weren't able/willing to confirm airbag deployment for the driver's seat
- this is key because IF there was driver's seat airbag deployment, that's a red flag that the seat WAS occupied
- he got the impression that this information was being withheld
- the reason to withhold that detail *could* be that one or more persons of interest may be under investigation
The source of this twitter thread is @TriTexan who is a long-time Tesla investor, supporter, and social media commenter on DISQUS forums (I know him from the Semi/Roadster reveal days). TriTexas is also a local and a resident of The Woods (near Houston), and lives quite close to the crash scene. He also has personal contacts inside the local police department. I rate his opinions as being highly credible.
More to follow as it becomes available.
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From an investors perspective I believe the controversy that arises from these sorts of accidents is a net positive. Tesla's primary differentiator is is the cutting edge. Any publicity that reinforces that belief is a win.
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