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This is probably a better place to it it
This is relevant to for many reasons including the one you listed- if anyone needs a more immediate reason, look at the vitriol around this issue in both congress and around the country- but perhaps the most immediate reveals in the question:
why, given the massive unpopularity among citizenry and health industry alike, is there another attempt to move in the opposite direction?
Because it's provides the source of the shoe drop; massive tax cuts to well heeled (who don't need help with health care). And that prospect has fueled some of the market expansion since the election. It is indeed related to our investment, and macro thread is the best place for this and similar IMO;
thanks for repeating the post here Mitch

We need single payer pretty much immediately, at least for those of us in the wilderness of the individual market.
Best I can determine the math works pretty much across ALL segments, with the possible exception of the very healthy, very rich.
The primary argument (reference Graham recent pleadings) is it's socialism for our health coverage.
Of course it is, it always has been, that's why it's more economically efficient than profit markets (at the insurance provider level). Many goods and services are in that category, and proven to be so, and many are not- the US is still learning the difference
(well, I hope we are still learning; not always clear that's true :cool:)
 
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I burn $5k per year on private health insurance which is absolutely terrible (very restricted networks, excludes everything they'd can get away with), and that's the best deal I can legally get on the market (yes, I did the calculations) -- and this is a state with fairly good regulation. It's basically catastrophe-only.

Someone wanted to know why I posted this informative podcast about single payer in the general thread discussion few days ago:
The Bernie Sanders Show by U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders on Apple Podcasts

This is probably a better place to it it, I believe it's it's relevant to investors because our current health care make money for the insurance companies system is costing us over twice as much as any other country pays for worse outcomes. This amounts to over $5k per person per year which is a huge drain on our economy.
Just to clarify the total amount we are spending as a nation on health care is over $10k per per year, and the savings from switching to single payer would be over $5k per person per year.

I think my earlier post about trump and Korea is probably more important. In the UN he threatened to wipe out a country of over twenty million not to mention the unavoidable collateral damage to South Korea. Some very similar rhetoric to what shrub used before he .launched the invasion of Iraq (axis of evil....).
 
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Just to clarify the total amount we are spending as a nation on health care is over $10k per per year, and the savings from switching to single payer would be over $5k per person per year.
Sounds wonderful, maybe Bernie or yourself can tell us how much its going to costs.
Sanders says Medicare for all would be cheaper than the current health care system
In an interview, Sanders said Tuesday that his measure would likely be paid for in a "progressive way." Aides said it would likely be financed by income-adjusted premiums people would pay the government, ranging from no premiums for the poorest Americans to high levies on the rich and corporations. :rolleyes:
 
Sounds wonderful, maybe Bernie or yourself can tell us how much its going to costs.
Sanders says Medicare for all would be cheaper than the current health care system
In an interview, Sanders said Tuesday that his measure would likely be paid for in a "progressive way." Aides said it would likely be financed by income-adjusted premiums people would pay the government, ranging from no premiums for the poorest Americans to high levies on the rich and corporations. :rolleyes:

Right. Even California and Vermont couldn't figure out how to do it. The reality is that health care is expensive because of all the overhead and administrative costs. I guess we have the worst of both worlds with the current system. A single payer would lower costs by force.
 

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Just to clarify the total amount we are spending as a nation on health care is over $10k per per year, and the savings from switching to single payer would be over $5k per person per year.

I think my earlier post about trump and Korea is probably more important. In the UN he threatened to wipe out a country of over twenty million not to mention the unavoidable collateral damage to South Korea. Some very similar rhetoric to what shrub used before he .launched the invasion of Iraq (axis of evil....).
It's way cheaper but I don't know many physicians who can cover costs just seeing Medicaid/Medicare folks. They literally have to see private payors to cover costs. Medicaid in particular does not and Medicare has been getting worse and worse. This is the primary reason that the government continues to push off the medicare reimbursement cuts every year. No solution, just stalling it.
 
Right. Even California and Vermont couldn't figure out how to do it. The reality is that health care is expensive because of all the overhead and administrative costs. I guess we have the worst of both worlds with the current system. A single payer would lower costs by force.
To summarize your graph, single-payer fires most of the administrators -- that's how it cuts costs.
 
It's way cheaper but I don't know many physicians who can cover costs just seeing Medicaid/Medicare folks. They literally have to see private payors to cover costs.

This is what's technically known as a "lie". But it's understandable that you'd believe that (it's false) because....

There's something non-obvious going on here. Medicaid and Medicare do cover the actual *medical costs*. Really, they do. I look at the payment records and I know how much the equipment and the time actually cost.

What they aren't covering is the ever-bloating overhead costs, as documented in a graph not long back in this very thread.

The overhead costs are largely caused by lack of single-payer.

Canadian doctors' offices *don't have billing departments* -- the paperwork is that simple. Ours have *lots* of people handling billing. Think about the savings in overhead.
 
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Should it pass the suicidal impulses of the Republican Party will be implemented down the line. We are seeing the clearest example yet of dogma leading to dogmatism and glorious extinction, much like Hitler's supporters at the end. As memory serves, Nietzsche once said, "the thought of suicide is a wonderful thought, one can get through many a rough night with it." Trump's challenge to the Senate will be just another example that failure is contagious with this guy. He always comes out on top, but his supporters are losers coming and going. Watch for the inevitable compromise with the Democrats as the Republicans, especially Trump, give them leverage. He can just say it was his plan all along.
 
I don't recall if Einstein gets credit for coining the principle of symmetry in physics. But let's see how we would feel in a Trump supporter's shoes.

Our party and our President are in nominal control. They have made promises and they keep their promises, as contrary to media preference as they are. The media is evil and constantly either attacks us or derides our beliefs and, more insulting, ignores us and our problems in favor of those less deserving. We don't like people of color and, at long last, our party and president are speaking in terms we understand, even though they are less direct than we would like except for Jeff Sessions. We don't like people who are better educated than us, I mean, we. They think we are not as smart as them, I mean, they. That is why scientists are not to be trusted. They just want to complicate things. And we can tell from their qualification of research results that they stutter. True men have loud and consistent voices in simple terms we can understand and unite behind.

Of course we supported the change in the U.S. motto from e pluribus unum to In God We Trust. Our minister talked about this years ago. (God forbid a motto in a foreign language!) Faith in family, culture, and tradition are most important to us (we?) true patriots. Others are an abomination. God did not make them equal, that is why they are different so we will be on guard against them. Black is the new Jewish star. ("I will not be replaced by a Jew.")

Now to repair to the TMCer mind set, how different are we who put our faith in reason and empiricism against faith? What if we were beset on all sides and only had those crutches to defend ourselves? Who among us has the strength of a Copernicus, a Galileo, or Darwin? I have had the protection of a political scientist too far geographically to influence national government, so the luxury of a contrary view of the Soviet Union was permitted. (Not my ideas; I was just one of my teacher's clones.)

It is easy from my ivory tower to speculate ad infinitum. I trust reason and empiricism will prevail but it is passing strange what really matters now is the money argument. Solar and e-cars are selling. Money talks. Bullshit crawls, or some verb I cannot summon at the moment. It is sticky, however, like a soft turd.

NPR had a story about a program for coal miners who are being retrained for other work. One said, "I had no idea or expectation I would have a four point oh average in community college." An example of money in the best place. Bernie would have tried that idea nationally.
 
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It's way cheaper but I don't know many physicians who can cover costs just seeing Medicaid/Medicare folks. They literally have to see private payors to cover costs. Medicaid in particular does not and Medicare has been getting worse and worse. This is the primary reason that the government continues to push off the medicare reimbursement cuts every year. No solution, just stalling it.
You should listen to the Bernie podcast that I posted the link to. The total cost is less, and every other developed country has figured out a way to do it. We can't afford it though?!

Two options are to pay more and not provide decent health care for everyone, or to save money and provide health care for everyone. I believe that the top one or two percent of our population can afford to kick in something to help the most vulnerable people in our society to have affordable health care.
 
Robert Shiller continues to beat the drum on US share prices appearing overpriced and looking like they did before previous bear markets.

The Coming Bear Market? by Robert J. Shiller - Project Syndicate
definitely a cautionary reference point;
note PEs are good predictors of the intensity and volatility of bear market magnitudes- although less good at actually forecasting bear sightings. That said, we are most definitely in new territory and it must be factored into the risk matrix

f6ec9fff32162ee0c2d6249825103a5a.png
 
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This article by Shiller is a partial duplicate of his NYT contribution earlier without the evidence he supplied that headlines in the press are not yet evident, but predictor of crashes when conjoined with historical ratios. This headline starts the ball rolling. Very interesting for those of us who sometimes associate with social constructionism or physicists' strong anthropic principle.
 
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definitely a cautionary reference point;
note PEs are good predictors of the intensity and volatility of bear market magnitudes- although less good at actually forecasting bear sightings. That said, we are most definitely in new territory and it must be factored into the risk matrix

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FWIW, because of nose-bleed valuations of US stocks I have been shifting the majority of the non-TSLA portion of my investments to international funds, which are still pricey but not quite as high PE or PEG (esp. true for emerging markets). Has been a winner so far this year (not so much before that). I have also stayed in US tech funds where high PEs are backed by high growth.
 
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There are at least two Republicans in the Senate worthy of their title, perhaps others, but Collins and McCain are true to their calling. The letter above is wonderful and recent interviews of McCain show a mature and thoughtful man. I thought his presidential campaign was terrible, his heart didn't seem in it, but now these two are my heroes.
 
There are at least two Republicans in the Senate worthy of their title, perhaps others, but Collins and McCain are true to their calling. The letter above is wonderful and recent interviews of McCain show a mature and thoughtful man. I thought his presidential campaign was terrible, his heart didn't seem in it, but now these two are my heroes.
McCain’s cancer prognosis is very serious. We cannot afford to lose such a good man. All we can do is hope and pray
 
a good plan for any country must be disliked by both the medical profession and the accountants,

disliked by medical profession, because their tendency will always be to cost more, and provide more service.
disliked by accountants, because their tendency is always to get better results per visual buck. (kpi)

since the dawn of medicines and withdoctors, this has been an enduring trend. I don't know what the answer should be for America health system (other than better prevention) but globally, we the world would like to thank America for paying for so much medical development that benefits us all.

(FWIW, Australian health system is far better than UK, in the UK, I personally know people who have experienced consciousness during caesarean section, as well as failure to obtain basic diagnosis that was trivial upon return to Australia) whatever the USA does, it should not, at all, follow any hint of the UK health system, if possible.
 
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a good plan for any country must be disliked by both the medical profession and the accountants,

disliked by medical profession, because their tendency will always be to cost more, and provide more service.
disliked by accountants, because their tendency is always to get better results per visual buck. (kpi)

since the dawn of medicines and withdoctors, this has been an enduring trend. I don't know what the answer should be for America health system (other than better prevention) but globally, we the world would like to thank America for paying for so much medical development that benefits us all.

(FWIW, Australian health system is far better than UK, in the UK, I personally know people who have experienced consciousness during caesarean section, as well as failure to obtain basic diagnosis that was trivial upon return to Australia) whatever the USA does, it should not, at all, follow any hint of the UK health system, if possible.
You probably need to add patients to that list as well, at least to some extent. There are loads of complaints by Canadians and the British about their systems, though they are much cheaper than ours. One of the biggest things Americans would need to adjust to is the need to wait much much longer for care. In Canada, you can't expect to have elective surgery right away. You may have to wait 6 months or more to have something that in America would occur in just a few weeks. But, even though there is a much longer wait, that does not mean there is a worse outcome there, just a longer wait. I personally think that's a reasonable compromise when you have to make touch decisions about the limited health dollars that are available. Americans in general though would have to change their mindsight about when they get their care.