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Have Susan Collins and John McCain had enough? When will the Republicans try to win elections by attractive policies and seek funding from the masses rather than the one percent?

They will never seek funding from the masses. The interest of the masses is in direct conflict with that of big business. Reagan recognized this and knew the only way to get some of the "masses" to the trickle-down side was to cater to and inflame their conservative social issues.

The further apart and more extreme that Democrats and Republicans become (gerrymandering deserves much of the blame), the harder it is for big business to bring the more of the masses to their cause.
 
Senator Collins's is not the only vote with the potential for kicking down this house of cards whose faces few have seen.

There are a fair half-dozen Republican senators who have telegraphed long since that either they, their constituents or both have too much to lose with the tax bill as passed by either house. It is not difficult to create reasonable scenarios in which it makes political sense for these senators, and even some representatives, to have voted for their respective house's tax bill, yet hold back their effective veto pen onceuntil presented with the reconciled bill. It is of course in the Senate where a loss be more likely to occur.

Now, were a Senate fail to become apparent, I am not sure if leaders McConnell (R-KY) & Ryan (Weasel-WI) will deem it less unpalatable to bring forth the vote before or after Doug Jones (LastBestChance-AL) takes his seat. My own rusty sense of realpolitik leans toward the latter. If so, then look to the timing of the vote as being the papal chimney's white smoke/black smoke signal.

Edited for clarity
Re-edited w/strikeout for another attempt at clarity.....
 
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They will never seek funding from the masses. The interest of the masses is in direct conflict with that of big business. Reagan recognized this and knew the only way to get some of the "masses" to the trickle-down side was to cater to and inflame their conservative social issues.

The further apart and more extreme that Democrats and Republicans become (gerrymandering deserves much of the blame), the harder it is for big business to bring the more of the masses to their cause.

I think you're right about business and I'm puzzled by the super rich who fail to recognize the importance of healthy economic growth. The exception to long term interest might be the Koch's who could just be greedy for the short term, or acting out revenge on a colossal scale. I can understand them.

Too often the Republican Party is the creature of big business and loses sight of some of its roots. I have to have faith small businesses have room in the party and have suggested to some of my small business friends their real enemy is big business and they often agree. That could be the source of crowd funding within the constituency of the party. Historically big business has been able to afford affirmative action programs, etc., and that is why it is so tempting for Dems to sell out. But you're probably right in your skepticism. Perhaps my hopium is traced to my father's Taft Republicanism and early childhood indoctrination.

I'm not an americanist so haven't the foggiest about small business associations but know Chambers of Commerce are often dominated by the big boys, locally, and nationally it is a problem in every way. Even the AARP is corrupted by offering health insurance!

Maybe we should all move to Canada before they erect the wall, but it's just a smaller version of ourselves with more untouched scenery, although they are surely wrong on tar sands.
 
I think you're right about business and I'm puzzled by the super rich who fail to recognize the importance of healthy economic growth.
Many of them are stupid, bluntly. They mostly got lucky, either inheriting their money or "being in the right place at the right time".

A few are financial raiders who aren't stupid but have a very narrow zero-sum view of life (they don't believe it's possible to get ahead without taking from others).

The real entrepeneurs who got rich building businesses (Musk, Gates, Bezos, Page, Brin, et al) mostly recognize the importance of a healthy economy and have some understanding of what that means.

Heirs often don't.

The exception to long term interest might be the Koch's
They're heirs. I think Fred Koch who founded the business would have understood the situation, even if he was a hardcore right-wing extremist in many ways.
 
For you night owls, here is a much fuller account of the latest version of the tax bill.

Republican Tax Bill in Final Sprint Across Finish Line

Still looks dreadful to me, especially the Obamacare tax penalty. Better accounts will be available tomorrow. Meanwhile, I'm going to dissolve into the telly with Rachel Maddow first, and then to bed with my exhausted wife who has a final in microbiology tomorrow—she's still in her pajamas from yesterday.

OT: She's permitted an 8.5 by 11 two sided cheat sheet, so covered with clues in various colors (depending upon disease or symptoms), I offered a small magnifying glass for further cheating, which she refused. She handed it to me last night with a simple phrase: "here's the juice of six chapters." Pretty good use of English for someone who never had formal schooling until she came to this country 14 years ago. Unfortunately, between my budding hearing loss and her pronunciation which often skips consonants at the end of words (not important in Thai), we have to talk through a lot of confusion, often hilarious. Like the White House lawyer, Ty Cobb. "Why is the president's lawyer from my country?"
 
Tiptoeing the gossamer-thin line of just what is General Macro vs what's plainly politicalisticish....I'll urge you all to take a look at what pap-smooth blandest-of-the-bland never-make-waves newspaper, USA Today, had to say about Senator Gillibrand* in their consensus-written editorial. If you haven't read it, find it in the usual way.

*And yes, of course it is not about her.
 
Greetings; I cannot believe I was never encouraged with my red nose to join these discussions. I have rubbed hard, all that does is make it redder:-( Rudolph is my name and I am coming in with an economic payload:)

To make @grr happy (I hope) my perspective of the macro economy based on my military background and hands-on experiences firing rockets and missiles there will not be a nuclear attack between now and when it occurs. Though we should all be curled up in a ball under our school desks, like when america was great ~ right?

North Korea is playing the age old story of “The Boy Who Cryed Wolf.” Each time he cry’s wolf, fires a missile, we all get scared and grab our sabers. We forget Russia, you my know them as USSR, built North Korea into what we see today. China provided the bodies originally during the Korean War.

Japan at this stage has the most to lose since the missiles are fired over their heads. Toyota management is concerned, but functioning, since surviving the nuclear power plant meltdowns due to earthquakes.

Oh wait, maybe I have the story backwards. Trump yells wolf by peeing off North Korea, and then laughs himself to sleep as North Korea sends missiles to our aide. Meanwhile Trump, the wolf devours democracy. One of these times, Trump will pee off the villagers (North Korea) and they will not stop the wolf. Okay, not perfect, but maybe you get the point. At some point in the correct story, the wolf eates the sheep ~ bottom line. War is always, always about the economy. Always has and always will be ~ Fred:) By the way, I have no idea who Fred is, do you?

A bottom line of interest and food for though. We were, as a nation, attacked on 911. While licking our wounds the President told us to go out and shop till we dropped. We did and the crashed stock market rebounded. Me I lost 100K because my skin was not so thick then. I did not lose money during Russia’s bloody take over of another state, and not Greece’s economic woes and of course Tesla rebounded. My prediction is, just do not be under the missile that makes land fall; you and your stock will be fine economically:)

Democracy is not the economy. But, democracy has everything to do with the success of the economy, and without a successful economy both democracy and the economy will and are failing/dying.

The economy is flat out simple; as a human family if I have enough money to buy food, shelter, and care for my family, I am a success. If I cannot provide for my family, we are screwed. Once not too long ago I asked how much it costs us to print (paper/electronic) and no one had an agreed upon figure. My point was that if I am paying my taxes, I should be paying my share of the costs associated with production of cash ~ we have not even got to medical services yet. While I am not educated in the field of economy, I sure can make a mess of it:) When I graduated from high school in 1968, my first job paid $1.70 per hour and I got a nickel pay raise a week later. The US debt was just over half a billion dollars in 1968; today it is twenty Trillion with a guaranteed additional Trillion if we are lucky with the new tax Cut. Now, there is a right way, a wrong way and a military way to do things; and I will almost always take the military tactical way. You see, if I was on a battlefield with a need to cross a large hole; I could bridge it (bandage) or I could fill it in. If you do not care about the forces behind you ~ bridge it; if you care about the forces behind you, then fill it in. Now, if you are in a hurry and do not want the followers to follow you, just burn the damn bridge. What economic principal does that equate to?

First, your political party does not produce cash for us to spend or horde; it is the government. Democracy is the core operating system (dos 6.2) and the government is like Windows shell 3.0. If there is a shortage of cash, then the government must produce more or inflate the value. Just like some folks hate when Tesla offers more shares. Again if there are bottlenecks (hoarders) then the government has to relieve the pressure, preferably fixing those bottlenecks. If the government dumps more cash into the bottlenecks instead of repairing them; well prepare your family for economic poverty. As an investor are you not relieved that Tesla is finally fixing the bottlenecks just in time for my tooth fairy:)

Everything we do in our economy is related to death and taxes; everything. When a religion dictates that I must eat fish on Friday or face the rath of god, then religion is a factor in my economy. Me, I’d rather eat a ribeye steak with my nice glass of Merlo, thank you very much. When I cannot get a job at XYZ because I do not support a particular religion, then religion is a major player in my economy. If guns are your thing, then buying and hoard guns thus supporting the economy; me I would rather buy and hoard my MX.

My birth religion was Presbyterian, one of my first big spelling words late in life, and their philosophy is that if you are rich, then god blessed you. Economically speaking anyway:)

If the tax cut is passed, Tesla will succeed come hell or high water (in Texas anyway), but you might want to invest in OxyContin, economically speaking:)

Truth has been eroded since George cut down his family cherry tree. My stories are my life’s experiences both the good and the bad. At ‘68, ten years less than @Intl Professor, my stories might be slightly off, but close enough for horseshoes. @neroden you are so on the money (economy), you just need a bit more history/background.

My save america all white boys monthly save the world coffee gang will meet this Saturday. There is me MajorBS, a retired Master Sergeant (deeply Catholic), a draft dodger (elitists leaning), a Canadian (we love it when he speaks Canadian), and my son-in-law (small business owner). No women, per our wives:) My only regret is our not finding other ethnicities and religions to join us; the white guys are like wonder bread building bodies 12 ways, but not really. Okay, you need the truth in advertising lawsuit against wonder bread for falsely claiming their product helped build bodies 12 ways. I ate the crust too:)

If you are afraid I will change your mind/thinking; do not go there. Unless you have the capacity to think outside the book, then nothing I say will ever impact you. It is like ~ never mind I’ll get in trouble yet one more time econocally:)
 
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To make @grr happy
Just FYI I'm "ggr" not "grr". I was very surprised to find that there is a user "grr", but I assure you it isn't (and never was) me. I joined a year before that other person, who hasn't been seen since. The use of my initials for login was a tradition dating back to early Unix days, where teletypes made short command and user names de riguer. For a while I was actually "[email protected]"... who can resist a TLA?
 
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Just FYI I'm "ggr" not "grr". I was very surprised to find that there is a user "grr", but I assure you it isn't (and never was) me. I joined a year before that other person, who hasn't been seen since. The use of my initials for login was a tradition dating back to early Unix days, where teletypes made short command and user names de riguer. For a while I was actually "[email protected]"... who can resist a TLA?

Thank you for the correction, and I apologize for my error:)
 
Off topic / political:
Bonnie Norman points to an informative Twitter thread Bonnie Norman on Twitter
It concerns the juridical niceties or otherwise of WH attempt to block Mueller's investigation. Appears to be informed and knowledgeable to this IANAL. :confused:

Mod: Maybe I should banish this posting to the politics thread. Any followups that aren't relevant to economics or the market, or that cause rampant political discussion, will cause them all to be moved. --ggr.
 
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  • Informative
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Just FYI I'm "ggr" not "grr". I was very surprised to find that there is a user "grr", but I assure you it isn't (and never was) me. I joined a year before that other person, who hasn't been seen since. The use of my initials for login was a tradition dating back to early Unix days, where teletypes made short command and user names de riguer. For a while I was actually "[email protected]"... who can resist a TLA?
Totally off topic (or is that on topic here? :)) I also began my beguine with an @ibm.com email address. But that was more of a mistake. A sigh of the times, if you will. :D
 
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Someone is starting to figure it out:
We might end up with a tax party hangover in a year: NYSE trader

We might end up with a tax party hangover in a year: NYSE trader

Keith Bliss of Cuttone and Company joins Yahoo Finance's Seana Smith from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange to discuss the long-term tax implications for small businesses, especially considering their ability to deduct interest is being severely curtailed.
 
$6 Trillion market cap added since election with positive gains every month in 2017 (very rare).

20171218_spxtr.jpg
 
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