"Tesla is a SCAM!!" - BMW Dealership

[Saimaannorppa]

There was a time I remember clearly (because it was less than 10 years ago), when Nokia tossed sales spokesmen in the media, who arrogantly dismissed Apple as a "fruit company from Cupertino".

Where are they now?

 

[wdolson]

You have some serious Fanboy issues.....
Relax.

The car industry has a major disruption coming soon. BMW has a higher probability to surf the chaos and come out the of the disruption in one piece. Their chances of survival are better than average. They will still lose sales to Tesla in the coming years and the only things they have "on the shelf" right now to combat Tesla is a weird mobile that is significantly smaller than anything Tesla makes with rather poor range (the i3) and a hybrid sports car that also looks like a weird mobile and has decent performance but paltry electric range.

They, like most European automakers, are promising more EVs and/or hybrids coming soon, but as was discussed in another thread here in the last couple of days, car companies have been big on promises with EVs and have not delivered as many cars as they promise. Audi claimed they would have a pure EV in 2009, but it still isn't here.

The European auto makers are making more movement towards EVs. There are actually some changes happening in supply chains and factories, but the planned ramp ups are very long. They are talking about mass producing EVs around 2020 or later when Tesla will be mass producing the Model 3 next year.

I'm not an unthinking Tesla fanboy. I came about my position the long route. I started out looking at ICE, then hybrids. I was amazed that there was nothing out there that met my (I thought) modest criteria to replace my Buick:

1) Enough leg room, I have very long legs and smaller cars are usually torture.
2) 20% better gas mileage (than a 1992 car with a 5.7L V-8).
3) At least 80% the cargo capacity (large for a sedan of the era, but I didn't think all that special)
4) Same or better acceleration (0-60 mph in about 8s)

I found nothing that met that criteria until I found the Model S. And it destroyed my Buick in every category. It has 4X the energy efficiency, 3X the cargo capacity, and 1/2 the 0-60 time. I didn't buy the Model S because it was an electric car. I bought it because it is a superior car to everything else available.

I'm an engineer. Being able to make something that superior to what has gone before is the real story of Tesla. Tesla has had teething problems and I was concerned about reliability, but I saw the 2015s had improved dramatically so I bit in 2016. So far this car has been more reliable than my Buick on top of everything else, and I drove the Buick for 24 years with very few problems.

 

[internalaudit]

Trying to get the OP's wife to lease the 2018 3 Series when the 2019 will be an all-new one.

If I were to lease, I might as well lease the all new model. Maybe the 2018's can be leased for $199/month?

 

[boaterva]

My short comment on the BMW isses (nav, etc.) is: I’ve driven them since 1997. People say, why not drive American. I said, show me something even barely equivalent made here, and I will. And now I do.

 

[sandpiper]

When you're pretty sure you're losing the sale, you've got nothing to lose and you'll say anything. You may be throwing your credibility out the window, but if there's a 1% chance it'll work you've not lost anything.

(Well except your self-respect, which apparently was not a factor for this salesman...)

That's exactly it. For a 100% commission salesman, as most are, there is literally no reason not to fire everything that you have once it looks like you've lost. And that includes deploying any sort of creative nonsense that you can dream up.

But they do that for one reason only.... it works. We consumers are gullible enough that unethical sales tactics work.

 

[wdolson]

That's exactly it. For a 100% commission salesman, as most are, there is literally no reason not to fire everything that you have once it looks like you've lost. And that includes deploying any sort of creative nonsense that you can dream up.

But they do that for one reason only.... it works. We consumers are gullible enough that unethical sales tactics work.

Which is why I refuse to reward that kind of behavior. If I get a whiff of that sort of thing, I'm a cloud of dust, even if I wanted the product when I walked in the door.

 

[smartypnz]

My last visit to our BMW dealer was with a check in hand (around $2500) to purchase the extended warranty. I was told they were busy and to come back later.

 

[TehDoak]

This is why the direct sales model is better. Sales people are incapable of honesty. It's not their fault, really, its the model. They are fighting for their financial lives. They are incentivized to do anything to make the sale. Including lie. Customer service is great....until the you dot the line. After that, you can **** off.

 

[AustinPowers]

I don't know. Somehow German salespeople seem to be a different kind of breed. At least the ones I have experienced so far.
When I was at my BMW dealership the last time, they asked me - as per usual - whether I was still satisfied with my car and whether I would be interested in one of their latest offerings. When I told them that I have a Model 3 reservation and intend to get that car and keep it until the German competition offers a comparable model, they were highly sympathetic and said "Fair enough". No FUD towards Tesla at all. On the contrary, the salesperson I talked to even acknowledged that the i3 was no match for any Tesla (and wasn't intended as such anyway). Very pleasant conversation and no hard feelings on either side.

 

[McRat]

I considered a BMW once, but they would not throw in a spare set of connecting rod bearings so I could avoid a dealer visit the first month.

 

[AustinPowers]

I didn't buy the Model S because it was an electric car. I bought it because it is a superior car to everything else available.

Not contesting the Model S qualities, but when coming from a Buick, almost every car is superior in every aspect.

I considered a BMW once, but they would not throw in a spare set of connecting rod bearings so I could avoid a dealer visit the first month.

What is that supposed to mean???
It's the same as if you asked Tesla to throw in a spare motor or whatever. Why should any carmaker give you free spare parts? Especially something like connecting rod bearings. What did you want to do with them anyway? Why the need for these parts for a brand new car? I have had my BMW for fourteen years and have never needed spare connecting rod bearings.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

My fiance, who runs in a crowd of people who primarily drive either a BMW 3 series or 5 series

Do they run in heels........?

 

[Yggdrasill]

I don't know. Somehow German salespeople seem to be a different kind of breed. At least the ones I have experienced so far.
When I was at my BMW dealership the last time, they asked me - as per usual - whether I was still satisfied with my car and whether I would be interested in one of their latest offerings. When I told them that I have a Model 3 reservation and intend to get that car and keep it until the German competition offers a comparable model, they were highly sympathetic and said "Fair enough". No FUD towards Tesla at all. On the contrary, the salesperson I talked to even acknowledged that the i3 was no match for any Tesla (and wasn't intended as such anyway). Very pleasant conversation and no hard feelings on either side.

It may be that the German sales people aren't sufficiently desperate yet. Most people have high morals, until they are put under pressure. If they don't feel threatened by Tesla, there's no need to get defensive.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The car industry has a major disruption coming soon. BMW has a higher probability to surf the chaos and come out the of the disruption in one piece. Their chances of survival are better than average. They will still lose sales to Tesla in the coming years and the only things they have "on the shelf" right now to combat Tesla is a weird mobile that is significantly smaller than anything Tesla makes with rather poor range (the i3) and a hybrid sports car that also looks like a weird mobile and has decent performance but paltry electric range.

They, like most European automakers, are promising more EVs and/or hybrids coming soon, but as was discussed in another thread here in the last couple of days, car companies have been big on promises with EVs and have not delivered as many cars as they promise. Audi claimed they would have a pure EV in 2009, but it still isn't here.

The European auto makers are making more movement towards EVs. There are actually some changes happening in supply chains and factories, but the planned ramp ups are very long. They are talking about mass producing EVs around 2020 or later when Tesla will be mass producing the Model 3 next year.

European automakers have particular reason to take their approach: the 2015 EU CO2 fleet emissions rating was 130g/km. 2021 rating will be 95g/km. Diesel was already losing mindshare and Dieselgate killed it.

2020 is soon enough for them.

 

[AustinPowers]

It may be that the German sales people aren't sufficiently desperate yet. Most people have high morals, until they are put under pressure. If they don't feel threatened by Tesla, there's no need to get defensive.

Why wouldn't they be under pressure when I tell them my next car is definitely going to be a Tesla instead of a BMW?

I think they know that once (say 2020+) all manufacturers offer long range BEVs, Tesla will be just another player among many. And for the time being, Tesla might eat away some sales temporarily, but will that stay like that forever?

I mean, I am a realist. If I had the choice between the Model 3 and a BMW BEV with Model 3 specs, looks and price, I would choose the BMW, no questions asked. The Supercharger network notwithstanding, as that is of little use to me personally anyway, as I rarely drive more than 200 miles in one go, perhaps three or four times a year at most. My Model 3 will be charged at home or work 99% of the time.

The SC network is a bonus for Tesla, a "nice to have", but it is certainly not the decisive factor some make it out to be.

The main Tesla USPs are
- incredible performance
- upgradeability
- user experience

To main Tesla cons seem to be
- price
- low tech approach to battery
- inefficent motor

 

[Petra]

What is that supposed to mean???

It's a joke about the S54B32 engine found in the E46 M3, E36/7 M Roadster, and E36/8 M Coupe...

 

[dsvick]

I considered a BMW once, but they would not throw in a spare set of connecting rod bearings so I could avoid a dealer visit the first month.

I considered one too, but you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting one.

 

[AustinPowers]

It's a joke about the S54B32 engine found in the E46 M3, E36/7 M Roadster, and E36/8 M Coupe...

Ok, that must have escaped me. I drive an E46, but not an M3 after all.

 

[Sportstick]

What is that supposed to mean???
It's the same as if you asked Tesla to throw in a spare motor or whatever. Why should any carmaker give you free spare parts? Especially something like connecting rod bearings. What did you want to do with them anyway? Why the need for these parts for a brand new car? I have had my BMW for fourteen years and have never needed spare connecting rod bearings.

Fret not...Just an chance to show off his wittiness...five BMWs later, I've never had that need either. Current BMW has had zero repair issues in three years, other than a door trim rattle, easily repaired. It won't go away when Model 3 arrives as a fleet addition and I hope the Model 3 is at least of similar quality/reliability.

 

[McRat]

I considered one too, but you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting one.

You be charged with three felonies in SF for that. Possession of a non-vegetarian object, assault with a dead or deadly weapon, and disrespecting a foreign automobile.

When Kaepernick threw his hissy fit, it was because they were allowing American cars into the stadium parking lot which is disrespecting the City. That's why so many of the elite are agreeing with him, which is completely understandable.