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Tesla is either extremely incompetent, or extremely dishonest, or both.

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"Service" means more than oil and filter changes, what he/she is talking about is the level of service to your customers, as a company. "Customer service", in fact.

It's true that the majority of Tesla owners probably have had good customer service from Tesla, but 'majority' isn't good enough. If you saw an eBay seller with 80% positive 20% negative ratings you would probably think they are a bad seller.

Unless you use pay per supercharging, in which case it's more expensive than a gas car.

Well, Mister Dont, I still think you're wrong. Of course service means more than oil changes, but not much more. Most gas car owners take their car in for service to get the oil changed. Tire service can be done at the tire store, windshield wipers can be put on by yourself in your garage. Paint issues can often be taken care of (better) by your local body shop. "Customer Service" obviously means that your service center offers you, what, free soft drinks? AS THERE IS NO SERVICE, that leaves precious little.

I think it would be interesting, as I pointed out before, to see a real poll as to how many owners have experienced poor "Customer Service", whatever that is. I personally feel it is far, far less than "20%". I'd like to know where you get your numbers. Your gut?

My wife's 3 pays for supercharging. We drove 250 miles and filled up to get home. Cost us about five bucks. Tell me what large luxo performance gas car can go 250 miles on five bucks! It is nowhere near what I have paid. Ten gallons of gas goes for about $40 now, I hear.

Weird, why do the threaten to void the warranty unless you take it in for wiper fluid and other crazy things at their "service intervals"?

No, Demundus, "the" don't. This is silly. I have had 3 Teslas. First two have over 80,000 miles on them, never in for a "Service Interval" or a routine service. The newer 3 has near 14000 miles, never been in for service. No one has voided the warranty except the odometer, but truth to tell, I have never had any service. They say the battery is warranted for eight years. Sounds like I should have near 250,000 miles before then, and I bet the battery will last twice that.
 
Well, Mister Dont, I still think you're wrong. Of course service means more than oil changes, but not much more. Most gas car owners take their car in for service to get the oil changed. Tire service can be done at the tire store, windshield wipers can be put on by yourself in your garage. Paint issues can often be taken care of (better) by your local body shop. "Customer Service" obviously means that your service center offers you, what, free soft drinks? AS THERE IS NO SERVICE, that leaves precious little.

I think it would be interesting, as I pointed out before, to see a real poll as to how many owners have experienced poor "Customer Service", whatever that is. I personally feel it is far, far less than "20%". I'd like to know where you get your numbers. Your gut?

My wife's 3 pays for supercharging. We drove 250 miles and filled up to get home. Cost us about five bucks. Tell me what large luxo performance gas car can go 250 miles on five bucks! It is nowhere near what I have paid. Ten gallons of gas goes for about $40 now, I hear.
.

I think we're still not on the same page as to what we're talking about. You're still talking about stuff about 'servicing' the car, or whether your service center offers you soft drinks. I am talking about everything else, things such as your experience while buying the car, transparency and consistency, and having lines of steady communication with your future and current customers.

Cost of supercharging is $0.28 per kWh, with an average of 0.3 kWh/mi, comes to about 9-10 cents a mile.. A regular car that can do 30 mpg (which isn't very high) comes to 7 cents per mile, which is 30% cheaper. If you go with a performance vehicle the costs increase (less mpg + premium) but in either case supercharging is very comparable to gas prices.

5 bucks gets you 18 kWh. I don't know what kind of driving your wife did to get a legendary value of 72 Wh/mi if she drove 250 miles on 5 bucks. My 85D averaged about 300, while I'm sure the Model 3 is less I am also certain it's not that much less.
 
Well, Mister Dont, I still think you're wrong. Of course service means more than oil changes, but not much more. Most gas car owners take their car in for service to get the oil changed. Tire service can be done at the tire store, windshield wipers can be put on by yourself in your garage. Paint issues can often be taken care of (better) by your local body shop. "Customer Service" obviously means that your service center offers you, what, free soft drinks? AS THERE IS NO SERVICE, that leaves precious little.

I think it would be interesting, as I pointed out before, to see a real poll as to how many owners have experienced poor "Customer Service", whatever that is. I personally feel it is far, far less than "20%". I'd like to know where you get your numbers. Your gut?

My wife's 3 pays for supercharging. We drove 250 miles and filled up to get home. Cost us about five bucks. Tell me what large luxo performance gas car can go 250 miles on five bucks! It is nowhere near what I have paid. Ten gallons of gas goes for about $40 now, I hear.



No, Demundus, "the" don't. This is silly. I have had 3 Teslas. First two have over 80,000 miles on them, never in for a "Service Interval" or a routine service. The newer 3 has near 14000 miles, never been in for service. No one has voided the warranty except the odometer, but truth to tell, I have never had any service. They say the battery is warranted for eight years. Sounds like I should have near 250,000 miles before then, and I bet the battery will last twice that.

Read the contract, "they" reserve the right to void the 50K warranty if you aren't current on service and suspect it is related to the issue in question. Which seems silly when service items are as trivial and ambiguous as "inspection" and "fluids", but later they added more specific things like "drive unit oil change". Sure would suck to have my drivetrain warranty voided because they added a new item to the service list and decided internally that any related issues would have been solved by an oil change.

Its just shady; and as with all things on this forum, just because you had a good experience doesn't mean others did or do. Tesla is anything if they are not consistent.
 
If Tesla was holding $70k of your money hostage ($5k of that unauthorized charges), how would you feel?

He chose the return the car. Then he has to wait for their bureaucracy to turn around to get the money back. If a Govt agency takes forever to refund you, you don't attribute malice, but plain incompetence. But when it comes to Tesla there is a sinister angle thrown around for everything.
 
He chose the return the car. Then he has to wait for their bureaucracy to turn around to get the money back. If a Govt agency takes forever to refund you, you don't attribute malice, but plain incompetence. But when it comes to Tesla there is a sinister angle thrown around for everything.

It's not even about that any more. Can you read? I am telling you Tesla took $5,000 from me without my authorization, consent, or KNOWLEDGE. The rest is just a high amount of incompetence, but if you look at your CC statement one day and see $5,000 of charges you had no idea about, would you feel greatly about it?
 
He chose the return the car. Then he has to wait for their bureaucracy to turn around to get the money back. If a Govt agency takes forever to refund you, you don't attribute malice, but plain incompetence. But when it comes to Tesla there is a sinister angle thrown around for everything.

Did you even read the issue? He was sold something that Tesla did not deliver on. How would you feel if Tesla took your $63K for an advertised car spec that was completely wrong? Meanwhile you're told you can return the car if your not satisfied but then told the contrary when you try to exercise the offer. Finally, you try again to buy the right spec car at a price you're willing to pay only to be told the car doesn't exist as they continue to charge 3 unauthorized deposits of $2,500 onto your credit card.

I know what I would do if this happened to me. First, I would go up the chain of employees who could make this right. Secondly, I would consult my wife who, is an attorney, for counsel and a potential referral. Thirdly, I would contact my friends who are employees at Tesla to get advice and expedite the issue. Finally, I would contact my local news program for consumer justice to put the pressure on Tesla.

I think the OP is being very reasonable. Most of us would be demanding concessions at this point or would abandon doing business with Tesla. Seriously ask yourself what would you do if this happened to you.
 
Update: We're making slow progress. Some literal angel saw this thread and put me in contact with a good customer service team within Tesla. (This literal angel didn't want their name published.) This contact is, as far as I can see, capable of getting stuff done. After a couple of back and forths since yesterday, he confirmed to me that he requested a refund of the second $2,500; and told me I will see the third $2,500 refund also in a matter of days.

As for the rest (which is $63,000), he told me he'd ask around to see if he could get an ETA.

It's great that I'm finally slowly getting back the money I never gave them, but one important thing to note is that the many email addresses and the many people I've emailed, still none have answered. This is only being sorted out because some person who had a connection with a good customer service team randomly saw my thread and had enough pity to help me. Without this person I'd still have no progress with Tesla and would be relying on a bank dispute.

Anyway. Maybe I can finally get back to thinking about what kind of car I will be getting...
 
Update: We're making slow progress. Some literal angel saw this thread and put me in contact with a good customer service team within Tesla. (This literal angel didn't want their name published.) This contact is, as far as I can see, capable of getting stuff done. After a couple of back and forths since yesterday, he confirmed to me that he requested a refund of the second $2,500; and told me I will see the third $2,500 refund also in a matter of days.

As for the rest (which is $63,000), he told me he'd ask around to see if he could get an ETA.

It's great that I'm finally slowly getting back the money I never gave them, but one important thing to note is that the many email addresses and the many people I've emailed, still none have answered. This is only being sorted out because some person who had a connection with a good customer service team randomly saw my thread and had enough pity to help me. Without this person I'd still have no progress with Tesla and would be relying on a bank dispute.

Anyway. Maybe I can finally get back to thinking about what kind of car I will be getting...
Finally...Good for You.
 
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I think it would be interesting, as I pointed out before, to see a real poll as to how many owners have experienced poor "Customer Service", whatever that is. I personally feel it is far, far less than "20%". I'd like to know where you get your numbers. Your gut?
FYI, I am certain there are many more, like me, who have received nothing but abhorrent treatment at every turn by dozens of Tesla employees and, therefore, are not Tesla owners but would have been if not for the cluster* this company is.
And in no way is a Model 3 either Large or Luxo. j/s

Good luck to OP. They should at least have to pay interest at the CC rate on the unauthorized charges. It never ceases to amaze me the folks who just shrug off $70k. Only other peoples' money though, it seems.
 
FYI, I am certain there are many more, like me, who have received nothing but abhorrent treatment at every turn by dozens of Tesla employees and, therefore, are not Tesla owners but would have been if not for the cluster* this company is.
And in no way is a Model 3 either Large or Luxo. j/s

Good luck to OP. They should at least have to pay interest at the CC rate on the unauthorized charges. It never ceases to amaze me the folks who just shrug off $70k. Only other peoples' money though, it seems.
You got it there.

I too was both a fan of Tesla and an admirer of Elon Musk to begin with.
Not anymore since I experienced myself the lack of CS of once-promising company.

The funny thing is some people, for whatever reasons, think they should and must defend Tesla regardless of the facts.
Sad!
 
,,, things such as your experience while buying the car, transparency and consistency, and having lines of steady communication with your future and current customers.

Hoo boy, this is fun! So you think you need a customer "service" experience, with transparency, etc. Well, I'm not understanding what it is you want. Last car I bought (the 3) I called up my Sales Center and asked if they had what I wanted. They said they did. I told them I'd be over in the afternoon (as they are 115 miles away), I was, and wrote out the check and we drove home. Obviously I don't need transparency or consistency if I'm going to buy it. Neither do I need a relationship with the sales staff.

**************************************You say:
"Cost of supercharging is $0.28 per kWh, with an average of 0.3 kWh/mi, comes to about 9-10 cents a mile.. A regular car that can do 30 mpg (which isn't very high) comes to 7 cents per mile, which is 30% cheaper. If you go with a performance vehicle the costs increase (less mpg + premium) but in either case supercharging is very comparable to gas prices."
First off, my cost per kWh yesterday cost me $.065, not "9-10 cents a mile". So, it's not always 28 cents per kWh.
Yesterday I charged at Folsom and added 150 miles. Cost me $9.82. You say that should have cost me $15 or so. I would have gotten better range if we hadn't been doing curvey roads in the mountains and 80+mph on the freeway. Whatever. A "regular car" is lucky to get 20 mpg unless you're driving a VW or some such low powered vehicle. But how would I know? I haven't driven gas cars for seven years. The folks I know who buy gas pay $4 a gallon, and get maybe 20 mpg. 150 miles would cost them $30. Not less than $10.

***************************************You say:
5 bucks gets you 18 kWh. I don't know what kind of driving your wife did to get a legendary value of 72 Wh/mi if she drove 250 miles on 5 bucks. My 85D averaged about 300, while I'm sure the Model 3 is less I am also certain it's not that much less.
Well, we do get pretty good range driving cruise at 60 on the freeway... but OK, I got convoluted in the math. My bad. <Five bucks got me ~75 miles, yes, ~18kWh. But you know that cost charged per kWh varies with cost of local electricity. I'm fairly sure that price per kWh is not $.28 everywhere. Obviously I pay less than your quote and my car gets better range than your 85 (320 miles on about 70 kWh. Se la vie.)

The point is, that gas and electric power do not cost the same. Many people claim that an electric can go 4 - 8 times farther on a dollar. If I get 300 miles for $20, that means I would get 15 miles per dollar. If gas is $4 a gallon, a gas car would have to get 60 miles per gallon to equal what I get, and they don't. Oh, well maybe yours does, but most don't. And my Teslas will eat most everything at the stop light. Something that gets 30 mpg won't eat anything.

And that's not even counting the fact that I don't have oil changes and filters and tune ups and plugs and stink and getting to stand out in the rain as I fill up. Charging in my garage is a lot easier than driving to find a gas station, too. Ten seconds to plug in. And at far less than supercharger prices. Your gas prices don't come down when you are just driving around home. My power prices drop in half or lower at home, where I do 90% of my driving.

Bottom line: I think your numbers are not all perfect. Gas cars are not as efficient or clean as electric, and just because there may be cases, most times the gas car is more expensive. You picked the highest price for filling an electric, but your gas price stays the same. So, not apples to apples, I think.
 
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It is very hard to read your post. But to summarize, I am amazed that your argument against "a company needs to have good customer service" is that I shouldn't need a customer experience with transparency. Not sure how to counter to that.

Your numbers continue to be wrong and confusing at the same time at every possible junction which is astonishing. If your charge was $9.82 with a per kWh of 6.5 cents, that means you got 151 kWh in your 70kWh battery.. ? and worse, got only 150 miles from your 151 kWh.

If you paid $9.82 to get 150 miles, and you get 320 miles per 70 kWh, that means you charged 32 kWh. $9.82 for 32 kWh comes to... you guessed it, about 33 cents per kWh. More likely the 28 cents I was quoting.

Another funny part is that this is the Model S forum and we are talking about a Model S, and you are trying to (very incorrectly) "show off" with your Model 3's power consumption. What I said "supercharging is more expensive than putting gas in a regular car, and is comparable - maybe a little bit cheaper - than putting gas in a premium car" was said about the Model S, not the Model 3, although it more or less holds there also.

You even with your Model 3 pay 10 cents per mile. A Model S is about 20% less efficient even with Raven, so it'd be 12 cents a mile. about A regular car with 40 mpg and $2.5 per gallon (where I live) pays 6 cents per mile. Even some premium cars, say Audi A6-7/ BMW 5 / Merc E, get 25 mpg, with $3.1 per gallon, gets 12 cents, which is the same as supercharging a Model S. Gas is more expensive in California, but even with that, the prices are going to be comparable.

I can't believe you're telling me about how charging at home is so cheap while the very thing that started this amazing conversation was the relative cost of supercharging to gasoline if you don't have a way of charging at home.

I mean if you think about it, what I said was "If you can't charge at home, Model S supercharging costs comparably similar to paying for gasoline", and your response was "You're wrong!! Charging at home is so cheap. And when I supercharge my Model 3 it costs less. Also. here's some incredibly wrong math to prove my case." ??
 
Update: Amazingly, the situation with the unauthorized payments has been resolved. As of today I've received refunds for 3 $2,500 payments. Still waiting on an ETA for the refund of the car I returned, but hey, I am glad to be able to back to 2 weeks ago when buying that new car thing never even happened.

Again, thanks to that amazing customer service team from Tesla that I was put in contact with because a good person who saw this forum knew them. Shows you how quick the resolutions can actually be.
 
Update: Amazingly, the situation with the unauthorized payments has been resolved. As of today I've received refunds for 3 $2,500 payments. Still waiting on an ETA for the refund of the car I returned, but hey, I am glad to be able to back to 2 weeks ago when buying that new car thing never even happened.

Again, thanks to that amazing customer service team from Tesla that I was put in contact with because a good person who saw this forum knew them. Shows you how quick the resolutions can actually be.

Here's hoping the remainder is taken care of quickly.