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I don't get this: $500 for 10kWh more plus lift gate? Thats a steal.
Sure there are others who ordered later than you, and didn't have to pay that extra $500, but that shouldn't be a source for angst.
Sure there are others who ordered later than you, and didn't have to pay that extra $500, but that shouldn't be a source for angst.
So you don't think business interactions should be based on doing the right thing? In my experience doing the right thing usually means there is more business in the long run.
In this case there was a change Tesla knew about as a company, and only communicated a portion of that change to the customer who was pressured into making a purchase based on that partial information, and then afterwards Tesla changed the pricing to such that a waiting customer would have gotten a better deal - i.e. that missing piece of info changed the equation for the customer signficantly.
Even the Tesla SA in one of the quotes in this thread understood how that makes Tesla and its sales look. It would be wise to waive to fee to clear the perception of questionable sales tactics. It would just be good PR on Tesla's part.
This here is the perception that I am suggesting can be changed, over time, by adjusting the policies. And equally, if such policies are not changed, the perception may continue to grow in size and significance.
I never said "freebies". The margin on my car is over 40%. I implied to do what is morally correct, such as not lying or scamming customers. Fake AP2, performance limits on P cars retroactively applied to save warranty claims, throttled supercharging are the few I can think of which bother me. They owe customers what they market and claim, nothing less, and nothing more.
What the are doing is actually both illegal and immoral. They can get away with it while they have the momentum and no competition, but it will ultimately cost them their reputation and solvency.
Tesla = United Airlines in their attitude towards customers.
now.. now.. that is getting too far. They are a scam, a boondoggle, fly by night operators, out to steal your money - I can let all that slide. But comparing them to UA, now that is taking it too far
RogerHScott
Active Member
If you only think it is "OK", you shouldn't have bought it and you definitely shouldn't be recommending it to others. You don't even need
to get into anything about Tesla, the company. Otoh, for those (legion) who think Teslas are (far) more than "OK", the issues that you
focus on are a fairly small piece of the puzzle.
RogerHScott
Active Member
Can someone explain the "pressure" that keeps being referred to in these postings? What "pressure" is anyone at Tesla applying to
anyone? Direct quotes would be great, but even paraphrasing would shed some light on this.
anyone? Direct quotes would be great, but even paraphrasing would shed some light on this.
You are right, I wish I hadn't bought it. Too bad they lock you in with a non-refundable deposit and false promises that features will be activated several months after purchase. I was wrong to trust Tesla had integrity. And that is they main reason I tell everyone who asks me about my car to wait for a different EV manufacturer before purchasing and to stay far away from Tesla, at least unless they fully understand what they are getting into.
Knightro
Member
I have several voicemails on my phone from my OA sent over the course of the week succeeding my initial test drive. ~ 2 weeks prior to the end of 60's production) telling me the 60's were going away and lets chat about how he could get me in a Tesla before then otherwise I'd be spending more money to get into one. So in my context, pressure was in the form of repeated verbal communications confirming that if I didn't get in now I'd spend that much more later.
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Personally I am frickin' jealous of your car Oktane - you gots yoself a unicorn. A P100D with ventilated seats (I like 'em despite what others think) AND AP 2.0 AND unlimited supercharging. For crying out loud you got a helluva car compared to my 60D AP 2 (soon to be 75D) without free supercharging. I did get everything else (air, vented seats, etc.) but I don't have a P100D or unlimited supercharging.
You're a lucky duck son, and you'll stop b*tching as soon as the software gets better and better (which it is and will).
What else is there? Okay a Bentley Mulsanne would be nice. But it still won't drive itself today or tomorrow or next year. You'll have to sell it, take your $200K depreciation hit and buy a new one.
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You know I get accused of being a fanboy (at least by the likes of @182RG) and I do love Tesla. I show no mercy to people who complain that the cars get upgraded right after their order. However in this particular case it seems that sales reps were implying that prices would soon go up (as a result of the 60 battery going away) to induce people to purchase. Instead they went down.
You are right there is no explicit promise, no legal liability. But language is, my friend, as language is used - meaning is found in context, in tone, in a raised eyebrow. Tesla does not do what is right all the time and I know for a fact Tesla makes exceptions and bends/breaks rules for pissed off customers who complain enough in private. In my opinion, this $500 is not worth Tesla's time to fight. They should give the guy the battery - it's not a manufacturing change anyway.
That isn't the point in this case. You are right - $500 is peanuts. The point is the shady sales tactics.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
But what "shady sales tactics" are we talking about here? What exactly was shady?
The OP got (or will get) exactly the car he ordered, and exactly the price he wanted. And as a bonus, he has the opportunity to upgrade to something much more than what he was expecting for pennies on the dollar. (And in actuality, not taking advantage of the upgrade would be screwing yourself).
I just see nothing shady here. If the exact car that the OP ordered dropped in price a week later by several thousand dollars, then we have something to complain about. But that's not what happened. They didn't change his order, they didn't charge him more, they didn't make him wait, and they gave him the opportunity to essentially get the new upgraded vehicle for a very low price. The only issue is that if he had ordered 2 weeks later he would have saved a bit.
Let's put things in perspective. The $500 change fee amounts to a price penalty of less than 1% on his car. That's exactly analogous to purchasing a cheeseburger today at $6.99 only to learn that tomorrow they've dropped the price to $6.92. And for that, we're throwing around the words "shady" and "misled"?
Balderdash.
But what "shady sales tactics" are we talking about here? What exactly was shady?
The OP got (or will get) exactly the car he ordered, and exactly the price he wanted. And as a bonus, he has the opportunity to upgrade to something much more than what he was expecting for pennies on the dollar. (And in actuality, not taking advantage of the upgrade would be screwing yourself).
I just see nothing shady here. If the exact car that the OP ordered dropped in price a week later by several thousand dollars, then we have something to complain about. But that's not what happened. They didn't change his order, they didn't charge him more, they didn't make him wait, and they gave him the opportunity to essentially get the new upgraded vehicle for a very low price. The only issue is that if he had ordered 2 weeks later he would have saved a bit.
Let's put things in perspective. The $500 change fee amounts to a price penalty of less than 1% on his car. That's exactly analogous to purchasing a cheeseburger today at $6.99 only to learn that tomorrow they've dropped the price to $6.92. And for that, we're throwing around the words "shady" and "misled"?
Balderdash.
I think the "shady" part being referred to is just that he was pressured into buying a 60 before they went away, under the theory that he'd have to pay a lot more for a 75 after that happened. The shadiest part of the whole thing, if you consider it that, would really be that Tesla announced publicly that they were doing away with the 60, but not that they'd be lowing the price point of the 75 to being the same as the 60 was on the same day.
That said, I don't really have the expectation that companies would warn you ahead of time about future price drops, or even future product launches that could dissuade people from buying their current products now. Sure, that'd be awesome if they did, but it runs counter enough to their interests that I can't really see that as something they morally/ethically need to do.
Back when Tesla announced that the 60 was being discontinued, it could have simultaneously announced that the 75 was going down in price.
Or, if Tesla worried that this announcement would cause people to delay purchases, it could have announced that the 60 was immediately discontinued, and the 75 price was being reduced immediately.
Instead it chose to announce that the 60 was being discontinued in ___ days, implying that there would be a race-the-clock to get a car at that price point. Then, when the clock hit zero, Tesla cut the price of the 70 down to the 60's price.
That approach was almost certainly legal, but is really rude. It doesn't matter that the Tesla salespeople probably didn't know that the price drop would be coming. Tesla set up the situation so that the salespeople would use the beat-the-clock sales pitch. And Tesla knew that the price drop was going to happen right when the clock hits zero.
This is a dumb policy. It really hurts the credibility of their salespeople. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of customers.
Or, if Tesla worried that this announcement would cause people to delay purchases, it could have announced that the 60 was immediately discontinued, and the 75 price was being reduced immediately.
Instead it chose to announce that the 60 was being discontinued in ___ days, implying that there would be a race-the-clock to get a car at that price point. Then, when the clock hit zero, Tesla cut the price of the 70 down to the 60's price.
That approach was almost certainly legal, but is really rude. It doesn't matter that the Tesla salespeople probably didn't know that the price drop would be coming. Tesla set up the situation so that the salespeople would use the beat-the-clock sales pitch. And Tesla knew that the price drop was going to happen right when the clock hits zero.
This is a dumb policy. It really hurts the credibility of their salespeople. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of customers.
Exactly. United Airlines mentality. Customers are just chattel to fund the mission. Tesla will say or do whatever it takes to meet quarterly sales numbers and keep the stock price artificially inflated.
Thank you all who have been participating in the discussion, first of all, I am a girl, not a guy, and I am a real human being.
The biggest concern I have is not paying the $500 fee and get the 75D, which is exactly same price as what I am paying for the 60D which I haven't get. Of course money is always an issue, but what is more upsetting is that after this price change thing came up, I can't find anyone to talk about my concerns.
I lost contact with people who I was deal with for my order over a week, basically after I found out about the price changing, I couldn't get in contact with neither of my sales nor my delivery specialist for over an week, ( I get this feeling that they are ignoring me on purpose), I went to the show room 2 times, out of luck, but the other sales who were in showroom did tell me that if I make the change before the car is in production, the fee maybe waived. So this week of "before the car is in production is very crucial, but I couldn't find anyone to even talk about this issue!!
I have to agree that every coin has two sides, I should look at the better side, but is it right for Tesla to just ignore customer when issue occur? I had this feeling that after I paid the deposit for the car, everyone who works in Tesla just disappeared. Good thing is that yesterday I finally get in touched with one of the manager, this ease me off much better. Nothing is promised yet, but I am glad to see that they are real human being works in Tesla, I thought the whole time I was dealing with AIs.
Again, thank you all for participating in the topic.
Cinematechs
Member
lighten up! This car company has changed the automobile industry! you get free over the air updates every other month! the service is peanuts compared to an ice car. do the math for cost of ownership, pay the $500 and be done with it. Nobody's trying to rip you off! you're playing with the big boys on a 100K+ vehicle that costs less to maintain than my 1st wave runner.
RogerHScott
Active Member
Can anyone cite a single example of a business pre-announcing a price reduction? C'mon, surely if it was so evil of Tesla not to do it
there must be hundreds -- thousands -- of examples from any number of industries of companies sparing their customers the shock,
the indignity of discovering that they paid more than the theoretically minimal possible amount.
there must be hundreds -- thousands -- of examples from any number of industries of companies sparing their customers the shock,
the indignity of discovering that they paid more than the theoretically minimal possible amount.
