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Tesla/J1772 adapter available from Tesla's website

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by dsm363, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009

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    #181 ChadS, Aug 3, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
    I completely agree with that. I understand this stuff, really. But those anecdotes are very different from my situation. There is enough confusion about my complaint that I must not have written it nearly as clearly as I thought I did.

    I did not complain about a standards issue, because I didn't see one. The Tesla Roadster adheres to the standard. MY car had a problem. Which Tesla fixed by replacing a part. I just wanted them to either 1. look at it sooner, or 2. at the very least, tell me what's going on and why they can't even look at it yet (which presumably would include when they would look at it).
     
  2. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    Sensitivity to ground leakage and "nuisance GFCI trips" (in your case very extreme) has come up before. One could argue that the Coulomb might be too sensitive, or your particular car had too much leakage. Swapping out the whole PEM seems a fairly expensive / extreme way to make sure the problem got solved. I wonder if they have some maximum leakage "spec" they expect the PEM to follow and consider your old one defective, or they are thinking it was still OK, and worked with Tesla branded equipment, but was tripped up by "overly sensitive" Coulomb devices?

    Well, I gather it is a "moot point" now, but I do think it falls into a category of issue where finger pointing could have taken place.
     
  3. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    Understood. This could have been taken care of by just replacing the PEM, but as stated below, it's very expensive to do so. One can compare this to someone going in to get an abnormal engine noise checked out in an ICE, and expecting to just get a new engine, which almost always never happens. The thing in this case is that it's a $100k+ car from a new manufacturer, so in the end, it would be far cheaper for them to just avoid the potential bad press, and just replace the PEM. Decisions, decisions......
     
  4. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009

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    I agree, finger pointing could take place...now that they have looked at the problem and have a rough idea of what it is. The problem could always be the other party, or sabotage, or solar flares, but you don't know until you look.

    Fortunately, I don't think either Tesla or Coulomb wants to point fingers--as you pointed out earlier, teething problems are to be expected, and they want to get over it. It sounds like they are working well together to understand the problem and make sure it doesn't happen again. Kudos to both of them for that.
     
  5. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    That is in no way comparable.
    It is much more like having your ICE car not refillable at Texaco or Chevron, and being told to go to Shell instead.
     
  6. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009

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    As Rich noted, it's not comparable--it was a real functional issue that was going to cost me hours of driving and charging, and put me at risk if my primary charging plans fell through.

    But more to the point, I didn't expect a new PEM; I expected them to look at the issue. Assuming the delay was because they were too short on time to investigate (seems likely, no? but I wasn't sure because they didn't tell me) I suggested a PEM swap because it would get me fixed quickly, they could investigate at their leisure, and it's probably what they would end up doing anyway. If they figure out a cheaper fix in the end...I'd be happy to swap the PEM back and let them do the cheaper fix.
     
  7. S-2000 Roadster

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    In all fairness, you shouldn't plan a trip around a brand of charger that you already know does not work with your car.

    I understand your complaint, but I don't understand why you're blaming Service for an issue that is an Engineering problem, and I particularly do not understand the big flourish about canceling your Model S reservation. I understand why you're disappointed that nobody got back to you after someone at Tesla Motors took your problem and passed it on into the black hole of their operations system. It certainly seems like Tesla Motors should have a process in place to distinguish between newbie questions, Service events, and potential design flaws. Other car companies have huge manuals with every service procedure spelled out in detail, complete with an estimate of the time that it should take to complete. Being a totally new technology that has to work with an infrastructure that does not even exist yet, Tesla Motors really needs to sort customer problems quickly and follow through on every one. If they don't know how to handle design flaws, then it doesn't matter how many people there are in the service department. Also, it seems that Tesla Motors probably has to field more questions than any other car manufacturer, simply because they're breaking new ground. If they can't develop a procedure to quickly sort questions and requests and problem reports so that they are responded to properly, then they will fail eventually.

    I think that 'qwk's comparison is valid, although perhaps it should be the ICE computer rather than the cast iron block.

    If you want to make the analogy about an ICE car not refilling at Texaco or Chevron, and being told to go to Shell, then you should make make the analogy fair. It's more like an ICE that doesn't refill at Texaco, and the workaround includes either Chevron, Shell, or a few other options. Also, to make the analogy complete, you'd also have to imagine that it's 1899 and there are only about a hundred fueling stations in the world, but exactly one car stops fueling at a particular fueling station for no known reason. Seriously, it's going to be difficult to make an oranges-to-oranges comparison in any case.
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Tesla is no worse than any other automobile manufacturer, and probably a lot better. In the past I've had a terrible experience with one of the big companies, when the solution to the problem wasn't in the service manual. Actually the service manual was the problem, as it instructed the mechanic to reassemble my transmission incorrectly. Their initial response to my complaint was, "that's normal". It took a lot of complaining over an extended period of time to get it fixed.

    It sounds like your problem got sorted out reasonably quickly, under the circumstances. Sure, the communications could have been better; you could say that about most organizations. Sure they didn't prioritize your car over others that had worse problems, but that was probably a reasonable decision given that your car was still quite usable.

    In short, cut 'em some slack!
     
  9. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009

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    You are funny. That is not remotely what I was doing.

    Customer service, not "Service". I am blaming Tesla motors for not communicating with me about my car's problem; I don't care how they are structured internally. What "flourish"? It was a big personal decision, but I just announced it here because it was relevant to the conversation.

    Good! That has been my only complaint.

    Yes, that's what I'm worried about. I really want Tesla to succeed, but if I'm this frustrated, there is no way the masses of new Model S customers will put up with it.

    I'm glad it's Tesla I'm having this problem with though, because with pretty much any other car company it would be hopeless. I think there is a good chance that Tesla will work to make sure this does not happen to other customers. They at least seem to want to make their customers happy, even if they don't have everything set up properly yet.
     
  10. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009

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    Again (this is getting tiresome): I never complained about fix time, because I didn't know what the problem was. I never complained about their prioritization. I complained about the time it took for them to agree to look at it. I had to force the issue and post here before they agreed. Once they agreed to look at it, they looked at it quickly and fixed (well, worked around; the same thing for my purposes) it quickly, and explained exactly what was going on. I'm very happy with that part.

    I could agree with you if the timeframe was shorter. Or even the time frame may well have been OK, if they had communicated with me. I'm pretty flexible that way. But 5 weeks of no information is simply not acceptable to me, even if other car companies do it. If you're happy with it, great.
     
  11. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    It's very comparable. He was wanting an entire replacement of an expensive major assembly of parts that could be fixed by just replacing one simple component. Ie, if you have a valvetrain noise, a .$99 lifter might fix the problem. Same with the Pem. A $.99 resistor could also fix the problem. It just takes time to diagnose. Valvetrain noise is VERY common on some new ICE cars, but you will almost never get a new engine out of it.
     
  12. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    I've been reading this thread with quite a bit of amusement. I understand the frustration very well but at least the problem was identified and resolved. I once purchased a used (just out of warranty) VW Passat TDI from an Audi dealership. It would experience a drop in performance when going up a fairly long incline. I went to the VW dealership that did the service on the car to get a printout of all service performed on it. I found that the original owner complained of the very same thing just 5,000 km before trading it in for an Audi. They replaced the injectors, catalytic converter and a bunch of other stuff with no success. Obviously the owner was sick of it so he traded it it in. Since used cars have a 30 day warranty, I brought it back. They said their mechanics didn't have the proper equipment to work on VW TDIs so they would bring it to a VW dealership. I told them about the previous owner's experience so they said they would bring it to a different VW dealership. A week went by and when the car came back they said there was nothing wrong with it. I didn't want to give up on the car so I did some research on my own. To make a long story short, I fixed it and it only took me a few days and didn't cost me anything. The car went on to serve me very reliably for 10 years. (the car never saw a VW dealership after that).
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    OK, you left us hanging..... What was wrong with it? Fuel filter?
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, do we have to wait a year for the sequel?
     
  15. DrComputer

    DrComputer Active Member

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    I think the jist of this thread is that Tesla's service is not up to the standards of other manufacturers. I agree with this and recently called corporate to make my feelings known about the service I received in the Los Angeles store. I figured I'd just get the blow off, but I actually got a call back from the National Director for Service Operations for North America, Matt Ferrel (sp?). He was very understanding and knew about the service issues in the stores and said that his top priority is to improve standards and change the level of service to exceed that of other dealers. In his words, "If Lexus gives you free cookies and sodas while you wait for your car we want to give you smoothies and imported chocolates".

    As an owner of a Tesla and a Lexus, currently service from both companies is far froequivalentnt. Tesla understands (or at least Matt says they do) that they need to improve service to a much higher standard prior to the Model S launch. I really hope they can do this and succeed. I do have Matt's direct phone number and he did say I could give it to any other owner if they wanted to call him with concerns. PM me and I will happily give it to you.
     
  16. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Think of the food miles, man.
     
  17. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    MAF sensor?
     
  18. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    #198 TEG, Aug 7, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
    That would cost money! As would a fuel temp sensor...

    Maybe he re-calibrated the EGR: TDI FAQ
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    No, there's a known fault on some VAG cars that you need to re-calibrate the MAF because performance really drops off after a while. It's a case of plugging in a laptop to the diagnostics port. (I speak from experience.)
     
  20. Adm

    Adm Active Member

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    Could it be Roadster owners expect more from Tesla because you guys found a window to look inside to the heart of the car? Is there any car out there that is so accessible?

    Let's face it: There are some engineers out here that can go head to head with some of Tesla's brightest. I don't see that happening with Ferrari or Porsche owners.
     

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