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Tesla just changed the competitive landscape (vs Audi/Mercedes/BMW AWD Grand Coupes).

Discussion in 'Model S' started by commasign, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    #1 commasign, Apr 8, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
    As a followup to my previous thread (P85D is a good value (versus Audi RS7, BMW M6 GC, and Mercedes CLS63 AMG)), here are the updated comparisons of the Tesla Model S (with the latest specs) against its competitors from Audi, Mercedes, and BMW at all 3 price/performance points. It's still not a perfect comparison as the standard features vary (leather, sunroof, driver safety, etc.,), but the inclusion of AWD and much of the the previous tech package (navigation, homelink, keyless entry, etc.,) makes for a better comparison than before with the base 60 and base 85 models.

    This is just an "on paper" comparison, arguably biased in favor of Tesla (this is a Tesla forum, remember?). I know people feel very strongly about fit and finish, cowhide everywhere, billions of buttons, quarter mile, engine roar, etc., :wink:


    Entry


    Tesla Model S 70DAudi A7 quattroMercedes CLS400 4MATICBMW 640i xDrive Gran Coupe
    Horsepower329HP333HP329HP315HP
    0-60mph5.2s5.6s5.5s5.2s
    Top Speed140mph130mph155mph130mph
    MPG/MPGe (city/hwy/combined)101/102/101 MPGe18/28/21 MPG19/26/22 MPG20/29/23 MPG
    Price$75,000
    ($65,000 after incentives)
    $68,300$68,490$81,800
    Middle


    Tesla Model S 85DAudi S7 quattroMercedes CS550 4MATICBMW 650i xDrive Gran Coupe
    Horsepower422HP450HP402HP445HP
    0-60mph4.4s4.5s5.1s4.3s
    Top Speed155MPH155MPH155MPH155MPH
    MPG/MPGe
    (city/hwy/combined)
    95/106/100 MPGe17/27/2017/24/1916/24/19
    Price$85,000
    ($75,000 after incentives)
    $82,900$75,700$93,100
    Top


    Tesla Model S P85DAudi RS7Mercedes CLS63 AMGBMW M6 Gran Coupe
    Horsepower691HP560HP577HP560HP
    0-60mph3.1s3.7s3.6s4.1s
    Top Speed155MPH174MPH186MPH155MPH
    MPG/MPGe
    (city/hwy/combined)
    89/98/93 MPGe16/27/19 MPG16/22/18 MPG14/20/16 MPG
    Price$105,000
    ($95,000 after incentives)
    $108,900$106,550$116,200
    Sources:


    fueleconomy.gov
    teslamotors.com
    bmwusa.com
    audiusa.com
    mbusa.com
     
  2. lorih

    lorih Member

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    Nice summary, thanks for putting this is such a concise format and sharing. +1
     
  3. Pollux

    Pollux Member

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    Thank you, @commasign, very handy.

    One question: why not compare the P85D against the Audi A8? I see that there's a lot of commonality in your chart between competitors' horsepower ratings, speeds, and prices. But I would've thought that the top-end P85D (maybe with options) might be viewed competitively against the A8.

    Thanks,
    Alan
     
  4. sickfox

    sickfox Member

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    this an awesome comparison. :smile: Does anyone know if TM can do something about the top speed via a software update?
     
  5. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    I always thought of the RS7 as Audi's halo performance sedan/grand coupe. The A8 is more of a luxury car like the BMW 7 series for which there is no "M" or "RS" equivalent.
     
  6. LargeHamCollider

    LargeHamCollider Battery cells != scalable

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    Tesla marketing should be using your chart, really puts things in perspective.
     
  7. point1

    point1 Member

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    I can't be bothered to actually check the exact numbers but there is no chance in hell that those top speed numbers are correct for the BMW 640 and the Audi A7 quattro with 333 hp.
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    He's right, it's 130mph on the A7 with an asterisk stating "Top track speed electronically limited in the U.S. Always obey speed and traffic laws."
     
  9. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    This was awesome. Thanks for all that work. I would love to see or maybe work on a similar chart for the Model 3 to get an idea of what to expect for that .....
     
  10. Right_Said_Fred

    Right_Said_Fred Model S - Sig. 283 EU

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    Those MPG-numbers of the competition ofcourse are a complete joke: like the Audi A7 going from 18/28/21 for the 333HP version to 16/27/19 for the 560HP version (RS7). That's just 10% more fuel consumption. Yeah, right.

    Electric cars are known for not losing many MPGe when putting in a bigger/stronger motor, on the other hand a bigger engine in ICE cars will kill the mileage. There are lies, bigger lies and MPG-numbers.
     
  11. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    All Audi V8TT engines deactivate 4 of the cylinders when cruising
    I was easily getting 27-30mpg when i had my S6 with 400hp+

    560HP is the same engine with bigger turbos
     
  12. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

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    Who cares about those numbers when all the other cars are still powered by gasoline and are millstones of past decades hanging around our necks?
     
  13. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Very nice chart. Yes I know there are many other variables pro and con EVs/ICEs (in my book obviously strongly biased towards a positive for EVs) but the actual data you have listed is what it is and speaks for itself! I hope you will take the time to keep this updated, and perhaps also add other manufacturers later?
     
  14. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Because most people want to claim that an EV is in a special category that is inferior to ICE. All along Tesla has been making cars that are made to compete directly with these ICE cars. So this chart is a great comparison to point out that Tesla really is out to go toe to toe with luxury performance cars.

    I would be curious, to the OP, of the range on the cars. If I am not mistaken most of these tend to have ~300 miles of range. Just to drive home that the range of the car is also fine.
     
  15. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Probably more like 400 miles range (20 gallons x 20 MPG). But who actually fills up their tank every night? Assuming an average daily usage of 60 miles per day (12000-15000 miles per year) and the average person refilling their tank when it gets down to 10-20%, the daily driving range is as follows:

    Day 1: 400 miles
    Day 2: 340 miles
    Day 3: 280 miles
    Day 4: 220 miles
    Day 5: 160 miles
    Day 6: 100 miles
    Day 7: 40 miles - refuel

    Versus Tesla is which is 220 miles every day (daily charge). Basically half the week, the ICE car would have a daily driving range of similar or less than the Tesla. Refueling ICE cars isn't exactly easy. Have you seen the lines at Costco?
     
  16. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Except that the P85D has less power than all of them. It doesn't even come close to 691. And at 440 KW max at full charge, it would be 590 hp assuming 100% conversion. With inverter efficiency at 93%(being generous here) and AC induction motor at 90%(again being generous), the most the P85D could be making at max charge would be 493 hp. The only reason it's 0-60 is faster, and just barely over the RS7 is because it's power band is perfectly flat so it has access to all torque at all RPMs. But in a rollon from any sort of speed, the P85D loses against all of the others in that chart.
     
  17. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    I do like the RS7 especially after the Spock commercial. Audi better get their act together and make an RS7 e-tron.
     
  18. Foodnut

    Foodnut Member

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    Great summary!

    Tesla basically has a model to go head to head price wise with each and every German car manufacturer. :)
     
  19. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    To be fair, none of the ICE vehicles are actually putting down that much hp either...
     
  20. Rama

    Rama Member

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    Never heard this argument before. Makes sense.
     

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