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Tesla legal claims MCU is a wearable part, like tires
- Thread starter whitex
- Start date
Cleo-n-Company
Member
Everyone seems to be forgetting... our Model S's are increasing in value !
Elon said it - therefore it has come to pass.
I called Wells Fargo about getting an equity line on my car.
Fingers are crossed for approval...
Elon said it - therefore it has come to pass.
I called Wells Fargo about getting an equity line on my car.
Fingers are crossed for approval...
I think Tesla tries to get away with the least effort - in the first instance.
In the end they do the callback or offer an upgrade, as we can expect for such an
expensive product.
If they had been aware that this emmc chip get's worn out quickly, they would have
designed an easy swap module (e.g. like a fuse or similar).
But they simply weren't.
It cannot be in their interest to spent two hours of work to switch a $5 chip.
-Especially as the service net is still weak and they don't want third parties to step in.
Actually we own a 2015 Model S and a 2021 MIC Model 3.
When I see the different MCU performance I am pretty sure that the $1500 MCU2 upgrade
offer for MS/MX is worth it.
So if this ends up to be Teslas way to solve the problem, it may be acceptable,
no matter what their legal team claims.
What worries me more is what happens to the battery pack in case of failure after 8 years?
Do they still charge $15k (or whatever) for a new one or do we have to try to get a used one?
Or do we even get stranded on the graveyard - no more battery packs for "old" MS/MX?
Our Model S turns 6 now and is in perfect shape, only very few repairs so far.
So with a new MCU I am sure it would drive another 6-8 years (or even more, only 16k miles annually).
Sure, to upgrade to a 2020 or 2021 (plaid) Model S would be nice, but doesn't really bring an
advantage with respect to our habits, that may justify to spent another $30k-$60k.
In 2-3 years when bunches of MS/MX get > 8 years old we may discuss if a battery pack is
a wearable part, too.
In the end they do the callback or offer an upgrade, as we can expect for such an
expensive product.
If they had been aware that this emmc chip get's worn out quickly, they would have
designed an easy swap module (e.g. like a fuse or similar).
But they simply weren't.
It cannot be in their interest to spent two hours of work to switch a $5 chip.
-Especially as the service net is still weak and they don't want third parties to step in.
Actually we own a 2015 Model S and a 2021 MIC Model 3.
When I see the different MCU performance I am pretty sure that the $1500 MCU2 upgrade
offer for MS/MX is worth it.
So if this ends up to be Teslas way to solve the problem, it may be acceptable,
no matter what their legal team claims.
What worries me more is what happens to the battery pack in case of failure after 8 years?
Do they still charge $15k (or whatever) for a new one or do we have to try to get a used one?
Or do we even get stranded on the graveyard - no more battery packs for "old" MS/MX?
Our Model S turns 6 now and is in perfect shape, only very few repairs so far.
So with a new MCU I am sure it would drive another 6-8 years (or even more, only 16k miles annually).
Sure, to upgrade to a 2020 or 2021 (plaid) Model S would be nice, but doesn't really bring an
advantage with respect to our habits, that may justify to spent another $30k-$60k.
In 2-3 years when bunches of MS/MX get > 8 years old we may discuss if a battery pack is
a wearable part, too.
Only until Tesla starts making their own, proprietary tires. Vertical integration + proprietary lock in = monopoly = $$$.
airborne spoon
Active Member
This is just stupid, i mean yes the eMMC is a wear item since the chips have a limited amount of writes before failing. The issue with why there is a recall for them is because they failed prematurely, well that's the wrong word they failed in the amount of time a 8gb chip should last and tesla should've known 8gb was way too small but was trying to save a few bucks and now they are pissing away money on a recall for the doughterboard when they could've just used a 64gb chip in the first place and avoided this all together.
Now the MCU is not a wear item you have to be one DENSE ************ to think that is a wear item. Like my moms computer at the house is 10 years old and still works just as good now as it did when i built it for her (AMD rules). The MCU is the computer and should not "wear out" if the workload is similar now as it will be in 10 years (there is no reason for the workload to change) it should still be working fine.
Now the MCU is not a wear item you have to be one DENSE ************ to think that is a wear item. Like my moms computer at the house is 10 years old and still works just as good now as it did when i built it for her (AMD rules). The MCU is the computer and should not "wear out" if the workload is similar now as it will be in 10 years (there is no reason for the workload to change) it should still be working fine.
In their defense, 8gb was pretty good for 2012 when the first model S was designed. Not in their defense was logging and updating the software and not bothering to update the 8gb emmc until mcu2 in 2018
All those timing belt changes were usually clearly documented in the maintenance schedule. If Tesla did that, there would be no problem. Heck, their batteries could require annual replacement every year, as long as they stated that up front, nobody would have a valid complain. The issue is that Tesla did not disclose that MCU is a wear item, how often it is recommended to change, how much it costs, and how much lead time they require to order parts.
Except your mom's computer is using a physical hard drive. Your brand new laptop, however, comes with an SSD and these things, just like the eMMC of your Tesla MCU, have a limited amount of memory writes available before they expire.
Tesla didn't seem to have thought the eMMC chip was a wear item, but the reality is that it is, just like an SD card, the SSD drive in your laptop and other solid state memory solutions. This was a miscalculation on their behalf, but there is no solution, other than to replace it with a memory chip with a longer lifespan.
airborne spoon
Active Member
Ewww gross you want a laptop? I hate laptops and they have no purpose in my life. Desktop or bust if I want mobility I use my phone, but 99% of my computer work is done on a desktop at home or at work.
I originally built it with an old hard drive I had lying around for cost saving measures, in prob about 2012 I upgraded her to a SSD, that same SSD is in there today still trucking along. And so is the same HDD that's used for mass storage.
Perhaps they just ignored the fact the eMMC was going to fail, especially once they added AP1 and all the fleet learning logging. Other car manufactures seem to do the right analysis of eMMC longevity - it's part of their design process and failure mode analysis. Oh wait. according to Elon "best process is no process". Dealing with fallout rather than prevent is classic Elon. Hey, it works for Tesla stock. They release experimental vehicles, while those silly guys at Porsche or Audi wasted their time testing the vehicles over years while driving them millions of miles, before releasing to customers. After all, customers are free QA if you have OTA updates and a legal department willing to state ludicrous things with a straight face.
I think Audi and Porsche need to drive their vehicles a few million more miles.
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SmartElectric
Active Member
2013 Model S, 8 years old, 95% original capacity, accelerates and supercharges (for free I might add) same as new.
All of the data suggests that Tesla designed the battery pack to last a very very long time.
Of course, Tesla did "nerf" some Model S/X battery packs while they investigated how to increase safety and longevity in 2018/2019, but it looks like they have mitigated that in newer 2021 firmware from reports I've seen on that thread. We have for sure seen Tesla replacing packs under warranty, but it hasn't been large enough to be alarming or even a concern.
8gb wasn't all that great back then. In 2011 I ordered a new desktop with 8gb ram and 1TB HD for home use. It still works great today. I know they are different technologies, but 8gb of storage wasn't going to cut it even back then.
Your defense falls flat when you realize that a 2012 iPhone (iPhone 5) had 8 GB of storage on their cheapest model, and you could get 16 GB and 32 GB of storage capacity. Again, 2012 isn't that long ago. I remember buying a new laptop in 2011 and it had 1,000 GB of storage. Heck, my 2013 Macbook Pro 13" was equipped with 512 GB SSD and it wasn't a very expensive laptop.
Ergo, Tesla definitely cheaped out by giving 8 GB. They could (and should) have spent $200 more and installed a 32 GB chip. Memory is facking cheap; just charge me an extra few hundred and future proof my ride by giving me more storage, please.
Correct: eMMC is a cheaper and a compact option as compared to SSD. A good read here: eMMC and SSD are just different flash storage, right?
My point stated above remains: Tesla could and should have given the owners more storage capacity. They cheaped out and I hope they have learned from their small mistake.
Hence the “I know they are different technologies” part. However, 8gb is the exact same thing as 8gb.
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Storage capacity has never been the issue. The limit of writes on the eMMC chips used is the problem.
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