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Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post

Discussion in 'Model S' started by montgom626, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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  2. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

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    I like Megna's concise commentary on the fuses and the tamper-resistant tape. Also his commentary on the Volvo lawsuit was quite insightful. Oh, wait, there was no commentary on the fuses and the tamper-resistant tape or the Volvo lawsuit.
     
  3. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    #3 montgom626, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    I am not keen about replying to Tesla's anonymous post. If I don't reply, I assumed to be wrong. If I do reply, I will be attacked by many of Tesla's fans who will never let the facts get in the way. I do know that my issues with my Tesla and how Tesla is treating me are not unique. There are other owners who own lemons. I am the only owner who has hired an attorney.




    • Tesla received three certified letters in November 2013 and December 2013. Tesla says it only got one letter in November, but there is proof of delivery of all three. Tesla ignored all three letters. They did nothing. No phone call, no emails, no letters. Complete, total dead silence. After being completely ignored by Tesla, I went to a lawyer. What did Tesla expect? Now Tesla is complaining that it knew nothing when in fact Tesla knew back in November, by its own admission, of all the problems. Tesla says it expected me to contact the service center. Service centers service cars. Tesla HQ handles customer issues. The letters were sent to Tesla in California as required by Tesla, not the SC in Illinois. Tesla, in its owner’s manual requires that the owner deal with Tesla in California directly, not the SC. All Tesla is doing now is a smear campaign by posting an anonymous post, when it should be working on how it handles customer letters.
    • Tesla says the door handles are something it can’t reproduce. I sent Tesla three separate videos showing the door handles not working. There are multiple unrelated witnesses to the handle failures. If you look at the video with Attorney Megna, the door handles don’t present (this is now video number 4). So when Tesla claims ignorance about the door handles, don’t believe them. It’s a well-known problem that Tesla hasn’t been able to fix (see the Tesla forum links below). Door handles were replaced on three separate occasions, and the car is scheduled to have another driver door handle replaced.
    • The car charging cable (UMC) failed while I was on vacation (winter 2014). Had I not diligently checked on my car, the battery would have been “bricked” (ruined beyond repair). The car has a well-known loss of power; it “leaks” electricity (vampire loss). Tesla requires all owners of the Model S to plug in their cars all the time. If the defective charging cable had not been discovered, my car would have been ruined. A neighbor was nice enough to change the cable that Tesla delivered while I was on vacation. If the neighbor had not replaced the cable, I would have had to fly home. So all Tesla owners, be advised, if you go on vacation, you may come back to a ruined car if you don’t check the charge status of your Model S every day. Tesla does not check. If I hadn’t been compulsive and checked the car every day with my remote iPhone app, the car’s $30,000 battery would have been ruined. The Tesla engineers still don’t know why the charge cable failed.
    • Tesla replaced the drive unit (motor) THREE (3) times. How is that acceptable? (Here is the link http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-is-the-third-drive-unit-the-charm.html). The Edmunds writer/owner feels Model S owners accept the role as beta testers. The author writes: “they are early adopters and willing beta testers of a shiny new piece of tech." No owner should be a beta tester for any car company.
    • Tesla fails to mention in its post that the steering wheel controls failed the day the car was delivered. Tesla had to replace the entire steering wheel and the air bag! No owner should be a crash dummy. Now Tesla blames the owner.
    • Tesla replaced four coolant pumps. The car only has three pumps.
    • Tesla’s anonymous blog appears to have been written by folk(s) with no customer service experience. Who attacks their customer? If Tesla is angry with the Attorney, then attack the Attorney, but they attacked me. All Tesla had to do was reply to the letter it received in November. That is basic customer service 101. Tesla builds very hi-tech cars, but still is struggling with some of the low-tech basics.
    • In its post, Tesla is justifiably proud of its accomplishments and the accolades from Motor Trend and, Consumer Reports. But it doesn’t mean Tesla builds perfect cars. No one builds perfect cars. Tesla shares this same award with the Chevrolet Volt which was the 2011 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Chevrolet Volt Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/1101_2011_motor_trend_car_of_the_year_chevrolet_volt/#ixzz2yU6QUkW4 I had a Chevrolet Volt too. It never required any service. None, nada, zip, zero.
    • My list of Tesla problems is the tip of the iceberg. Instead of attacking me, Tesla should get a “handle” on the Model S problems. And treat its owners with respect. I am not alone in needing countless service calls. In a poll, 20% of Tesla owners have had more than three visits. One owner declared “I'm there about once a week.”

    Haunted Doors, Again

    http://teslaowner.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/haunted-doors-again/

    New door handle design

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/16037-New-door-handle-design

    Door handle not working


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/16126-Door-handle-not-working

    Right front door popped open while driving

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17929-Right-front-door-popped-open-while-driving

    6 hours and counting for door handle ranger repair


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21842-6-hours-and-counting-for-door-handle-ranger-repair

    2013 Tesla Model S: Door Handle Won't Retract


    http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-door-handle-wont-retract.html

    2013 Tesla Model S: Door Opens Automatically


    http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-door-opens-automatically.html

    Bad UMC: Model S not charging

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/12742-Bad-UMC-Model-S-not-charging


    Owner 2 days, charge port failure


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/22029-Owner-2-days-charge-port-failure

    12V battery issues (error messages/car charging problems)


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/11379-12V-battery-issues-%28error-messages-car-charging-problems%29

    Car was dead this morning after 3 days in sleep mode while plugged in

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24644-Car-was-dead-this-morning-after-3-days-in-sleep-mode-while-plugged-in

    One month old P85 with 12V battery issue

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24905-One-month-old-P85-with-12V-battery-issue

    2013 Tesla Model S: Stuck on the Freeway

    http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-stuck-on-the-freeway.html

    12v battery problem and stranded!


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/22322-12v-battery-problem-and-stranded


    Coolant System Problem ID: 1465 - I cannot charge anymore

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19299-Coolant-System-Problem-ID-1465-I-cannot-charge-anymore

    New coolant pump

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28882-Confirmed-Today!


    Poll: How Many Visits to Service Center?


    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21501-How-Many-Service-Center-Visits-Have-You-Made
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    How is it that his video advertising the suit against Tesla was made BEFORE the first demand letter? I guess he was demanding his money back at that point, but it seems premature to make a video about it BEFORE Tesla has even a chance to respond.

    The attorney knew this was going to be contentious and receive worldwide attention!!
     
  5. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

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    No rebuttal to this rather large paragraph in Tesla's blog post:

    How come?
     
  6. MassX1317

    MassX1317 Addicted to TMC

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    I honestly think this lawyer has made a mockery of the whole legal process and is using this as an advertising campaign. He should be embarrassed by his lack of professionalism.

    I find it hard to believe that Tesla wouldn't buy the car back if the car was truly a lemon. If it was a $95k car, they made a profit of $20k or so. I'm sure they could use the vehicle for testing purposes and/or a demo, maybe even a loaner. So all they lose is the $20k, in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal to Tesla. Also, why would complaints be sent so close together by certified mail? Wouldn't there be time provided to allow Tesla to resolve the issue before more certified letters were sent?

    There is more to this story, if there wasn't Tesla wouldn't have responded in the way they did. The lawyers video is filled with lies (or twists of the truth). From the way this has been handled publicly and just applying common sense to the known information, Tesla gets the benefit of the doubt.
     
  7. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    #7 dsm363, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    What SOC was you car left at when you went on vacation and how many months were you planning on being gone? If your vacation was less than a few months your car might not have been drivable but it wouldn't have been 'bricked' as you said. Big difference. The battery would have been covered under warranty anyway.

    Why did you hire such a lawyer anyway (one who makes YouTube videos of questionable taste) instead of one who would simple represent your interest and not try and cause publicity and attention towards you as well leading Tesla to post their response? A decent lawyer would have spoken directly with Tesla.

    Did you ever call Tesla HQ to ask them about the letters and your situation?
     
  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Because he's the same lawyer he used when he sued Volvo. Such bad luck.
     
  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Read: Lemon Law Attorney Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post

    Yeah. Second and third letters are 6 days apart and that's including a Saturday and Sunday so considering he sent USPS instead of overnight FedEx then he sent the third letter likely on Monday or Tuesday of the week of Dec. 16th for it to arrive on the 19th.
     
  10. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Your post leaves the most important questions unanswered, while pointing out replacements that Tesla does on other vehicles without hassle, just because there is an updated part that makes the car work better. Coolant pumps come to mind.

    Why were the fuses tampered with, and stopped being tampered with once Tesla put tape over them?

    What is the story on the Volvo lemon claim?

    Why make a tacky video with a DB attorney, in which he blatantly lies about not being able to state facts?

    You see, there are too many coincidences here to make this a genuine lemon claim. My common sense meter points toward other motives.
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I don't doubt your car had many annoying and even troubling issues like many early cars did but you brought a bazooka to a knife fight and got a representative response.
     
  12. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    OP, first, thank you for posting your side of the story, I do appreciate it.

    I am sorry you have had so many issues with your car and if it does indeed meet the definition of a lemon, I hope you get a new car or full refund.

    That said, you are the one that hired a lawyer that is more interested in vaudeville acts than his client. You have to expect a response when your lawyer posts a video on the Internet with half truths, innuendos and just plain silliness.

    The fuse issue does indeed seem suspicious as the fix appears to have been for tamper tape to be installed.

    And your own exaggerations don't help your own cause here. You state that people on vacations are required to check their charge status daily or risk bricking your battery. This won't happen in a single day, nor week. Currently, it won't even happen in a month, so checking it weekly is more than sufficient.
     
  13. rage_777

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    I do agree with you that Tesla HQ should have at least responded to your letter that they got. That was a very bad move on their part.

    Some things I am questioning on your rebuttal:
    I think you meant winter of 2013, but still wasn't the update to fix this done before this? So maybe you meant 2012, which would mean you had a really early version maybe even a sig.
    Edit: Maybe you did mean 2014, so earlier this year which means you definitely should have the vampire drain fix by now since you have taken into a service center.

    Why are you pointing to Edmunds? Are you using the Edmund's car? Did you replace the drive unit three times, or are you saying that other people have replaced the drive unit three times? I'm confused.

    You also put links in your article to every problem that has ever been found on the Model S. Are you saying that you have encountered all these problems? If I look into all the threads that you linked to, will I find a post in every one saying "Yes I have that problem also"? If not, why not?
     
  14. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    It seems unwise to talk about your case on the Internet, does it not? Let's ignore the obvious reasons for not doing it, but then you come to 'the' Tesla fan forum. It's an odd decision to make without even considering that you didn't address the main issues and I can rebut every single one of your points and align it with Tesla's blog.

    Respect is earned. Someone who makes the types of decisions you do; coming here, talking about the case, putting together the cheesiest video I've ever seen, hiring a lawyer that makes people feel dirty, tampering with the car's fuse box - repeatedly, until Tesla has to take steps to make it off limits etc... isn't someone that generally deserves respect in my world.

    Simply put, I do not believe your story. It smells.
     
  15. rage_777

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    #15 rage_777, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    According to this thread (Cooling pumps B now C) that you created, Tesla replaced your coolant pumps just to be safe. Doesn't look like it was a problem for you.
    So, I guess it must have been this past winter that you had the vampire drain issue.


    Edit:
    Also saw this thread and your post (Bad UMC: Model S not charging - Page 4).
    Doesn't sound like you had any issues.
    Also in this thread (5.8 vampire loss is much better) you said that you lose 7 miles every 24 hours. So I was wondering how long your vacation was. It looks like you kept posting while you were on vacation, because there aren't too many lapses in your post dates.

    Looks like you started thinking about the Lemon Law around the middle of March 2014 (Dead Calm - Page 5), since you were responding to a one year old thread.
     
  16. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

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    I am not going to pass judgment or come to any conclusions based on what you are Tesla has said. I will say, however, that there is no question about this: YOU are responsible for anything your attorney does or says on your behalf. If he makes a cheesy video, that video is on YOU. If he tells half-truths, he is speaking for YOU. Etc., etc... He is your representative. Tesla is not supposed to go after your attorney if they feel he is erroneous, they are supposed to go after YOU.
     
  17. MassX1317

    MassX1317 Addicted to TMC

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    I'm curious what resolution you are looking for:

    1 - Tesla repair the vehicle (appears to be fixed now)
    2 - Tesla buy the car back at fair value (do you have a lot of miles on the car and continue to use the lemon?)
    3 - Tesla buy the car back for the price you paid
    4 - Tesla replace the vehicle with a brand new one
    5 - Tesla buy the car back at full price, plus monetary damages
    6 - Tesla give you a brand new replacement and monetary damages

    Follow up question:

    How is that lawyer getting paid?
     
  18. clintons

    clintons Member

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    While unfortunate that you had a problem with your charging cable (UMC), this was a singular event and therefore does not support your case. In fact all of your bullet points are extraneous. Your best bet is to stick with the door handle complaint. However, it does sound like you may face rebuttal on some or all of your reported failure occurrences. Good luck to you.
     
  19. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    #19 wycolo, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    Welcome back montgom626 with the well-referenced summary.

    1. Curious if you kept an ongoing summary in all communications with TM. Seems doing so would be required once a situation approaches 'lemon level'.

    2. TM's unfortunate use of the term 'tamper resistant' tape is 'leading the jury' by implying your opening frunk/replacing fuses is somehow a sinister act. When any car has intermittent electrical problems replacing fuses as well as testing the entire fuse block (for intermittent connections) is an ongoing requirement. And something that has to be done several times. Non-mechanics might not understand this (e.g. TM's respondents).

    3. Once again that defective UMC is causing grief (will it ever end?). Not part of the car, but it did 'come with the car'. Oy!! [I posted on this elsewhere today].

    I trust cooler heads will prevail and offer you resolution one way or the other.
    --
     
  20. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    So it appears that the pumps aren't part of your lemon suit. As the old ones didn't affect anything, and they replaced them (ranger visit even) at your convenience.
     

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