Tesla M3 owners getting short changed on battery capacity?

[George S. Bower]

Ingineer hacked the M3 computer and found that the "full pack capacity capacity" was 76 kwh
Tesla Model 3 gets hacked, reveals more details and great potential for dual motor/ performance versions

Jack Rickard took apart a model 3 battery module and determined that the cell was 4.8 a-hr and a usable battery of 76 kwh's. Exactly the same number as what Ingineer got when he hacked the software.

@13:33 and 51:31 in the video

However:

Bjorn Nyland has tested both the long range RWD and the performance model.

In the LR RWD model he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's

@ approx 16:17 in the video

The performance model test he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's
@12:18 in the video

Pretty big discrepancy.

Anyone know why?

 

[Matt L]

Ingineer hacked the M3 computer and found that the "full pack capacity capacity" was 76 kwh
Tesla Model 3 gets hacked, reveals more details and great potential for dual motor/ performance versions

Jack Rickard took apart a model 3 battery module and determined that the cell was 4.8 a-hr and a usable battery of 76 kwh's. Exactly the same number as what Ingineer got when he hacked the software.

@13:33 and 51:31 in the video

However:

Bjorn Nyland has tested both the long range RWD and the performance model.

In the LR RWD model he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's

@ approx 16:17 in the video

The performance model test he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's
@12:18 in the video

Pretty big discrepancy.

Anyone know why?

They don’t want you running it to zero

 

[Brando]

Ingineer hacked the M3 computer and found that the "full pack capacity capacity" was 76 kwh
Tesla Model 3 gets hacked, reveals more details and great potential for dual motor/ performance versions

Jack Rickard took apart a model 3 battery module and determined that the cell was 4.8 a-hr and a usable battery of 76 kwh's. Exactly the same number as what Ingineer got when he hacked the software.

@13:33 and 51:31 in the video

However:

Bjorn Nyland has tested both the long range RWD and the performance model.

In the LR RWD model he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's

@ approx 16:17 in the video

The performance model test he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's
@12:18 in the video

Pretty big discrepancy.

Anyone know why?

Most don't understand physics (power vs energy; nor work, batteries energy vs power; volts, amps, watts significant digits; measurements; stats;, electronic, electricity; electric bill (what it costs to create electrons vs what you pay and how much you pay per electron).
So worrying about battery size misses the point. The fact that most any electric car can go +200 miles on only about 3 gallons of petrol is just amazing. I doubt anyone is buying a car based on battery specs. You have many other considerations to help you decide what you want to spend your transportation dollars on.

I never bought a car based on range, nor how many pints of gas it used. It was a factor, but just one of many. So stop obsessing about batteries and consider the things that actually matter to you.

 

[Brando]

 

[jjrandorin]

Op, there is a reason they dont have a number on the back of the model 3 for battery capacity (and will be moving away from it for all the other cars as well).

Tesla has not promised 75 or 76 watts. They have a rated range. They could put in a 50kW battery if it would hit the rated range. I suspect they expect to get more efficient batteries (and less of them to hit rated range) in newer teslas.

No, its not cheating, because no where is there a rated wattage... its not called a Model 3 P75D for example.

 

[George S. Bower]

Tesla has not promised 75 or 76 watts. They have a rated range. .

Right and the performance model does not make its advertised range.

and it does not use the full capacity of the pack.

 

[Billyk24]

and it does not use the full capacity of the pack.

What is the full capacity of the pack since you mentioned it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Right and the performance model does not make its advertised range.

and it does not use the full capacity of the pack.

It doesnt make its rated range because of the tires. If you put on non sticky 18inch aeros, and drive like the testing for range, you will hit the range. If you dont (and dont) you wont.

Regardless, getting upset about number of watts in the battery is EXACTLY why tesla is moving away from calling the cars by a rated battery size. Regardless of how upset you are about whatever it is, tesla never (ever) promised you a specific wattage size in the model 3 in any sort of official capacity. Since thats not the case, they are not "short changing" anything.

Im not a fanboy in any way shape or form, I am a realist. With that being said, it gets somewhat tiring for people to get upset about made up stuff (on both sides). Tesla is not perfect.. there is plenty to get upset about with them thats real.. like the fact that Model 3 Performance+ buyers still dont have their promised spoilers, or how the purchasing process went after they laid off people who were in process with some. Or, how its likely that none of the cars currently on the road will actually be able to fully self drive legally, regardless of the money owners spent on the feature.

Or, many cars being delivered with due bill items, requiring multiple trips to the service center to fix, at a cost to the owner of time, and a cost to tesla of needing to have more workers to fix things that should have been right coming out of the factory.

There is more real stuff, no need to try to manufacture stuff to get upset about, which is what this post is... since no wattage was ever promised... and in fact people have to hack and sleuth it out to try to find it.

 

[Rocky_H]

Pretty big discrepancy.

Anyone know why?

Because they are measuring two very different things. The battery tear-downs and direct computer reading are telling the total amount of energy in all of the physical cells available in the whole battery pack. The number from Bjorn is telling the amount of energy that the car's system is allowing people to use for driving distance. There is a reserved amount of energy that you are forbidden from using for a very good reason:

If you used up all of the energy in the battery, you could use it once, and then it would be destroyed and you could never recharge it again. Depleting down to absolutely dead 0V is horrifically destructive for lithium ion batteries. That is why that reserved amount of energy is colloquially known around EV forums as the "anti-bricking reserve". It is there to prevent users from destroying their batteries.

Tesla has not promised 75 or 76 watts. They have a rated range. They could put in a 50kW battery if it would hit the rated range.

Your terrible use of units is making me cringe like when I bite into a grain of sand in clam chowder. Energy is measured in kilowatt hours. Kilowatts is a measure of a rate of energy transfer.

 

[MP3Mike]

Bjorn Nyland has tested both the long range RWD and the performance model.

In the LR RWD model he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's

The problem there is that he is using the numbers displayed by the trip meter which aren't 100% accurate.

That and the fact that Tesla doesn't advertise a capacity at all anymore.

 

[Brando]

and it does not use the full capacity of the pack.

What is the full capacity of the pack since you mentioned it.

varies depending on temperature - and the range also varies depending ... you know the variables, right? air/wind resistance, tires & pressure, hub caps, how you drive, temperature, speed traveled, terrain, I trust you get the idea.

 

[Zoomit]

Let’s not forget that battery capacity is a function of the discharge rate as well. A faster discharge will yeild less energy.

In short, do not think of battery energy capacity like a fluid container with a set volume (like a gas tank). Discharging a battery is a fundamentally different physical process than “draining a tank” and the analogy to a gas tank oversimplifies the reality.

 

[cbutters]

Ingineer hacked the M3 computer and found that the "full pack capacity capacity" was 76 kwh
Tesla Model 3 gets hacked, reveals more details and great potential for dual motor/ performance versions

Jack Rickard took apart a model 3 battery module and determined that the cell was 4.8 a-hr and a usable battery of 76 kwh's. Exactly the same number as what Ingineer got when he hacked the software.

@13:33 and 51:31 in the video

However:

Bjorn Nyland has tested both the long range RWD and the performance model.

In the LR RWD model he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's

@ approx 16:17 in the video

The performance model test he projected a full pack capacity of only 72 kwh's
@12:18 in the video

Pretty big discrepancy.

Anyone know why?

4kWh of Reserve so it doesn't drain the batteries down to 0% which is not only bad for the battery; but potentially dangerous. If tesla let people use the full charge/discharge range of the batteries; they would not last nearly as long. This is not any different than other Tesla vehicles or other EVs frankly... my BMW i3 had a 22kwh battery that only had 18.8kwh usable (and if you looked at the software it only used 14-15kwh when it was a few years old!) The model X/S 100kwh pack has 102kwh of cells, but 4kwh is on reserve with only 98kwh accessible.
Either way; the model 3 gets 310 miles using the 72kwh available anyways (granted in ideal conditions).

So in short; the 4kwh "discrepancy" you are noticing is A) expected B) desirable for battery longevity C) Not a factor for hitting range. D) the 4kwh we are discussing is only 5% of the pack. Not much to worry about.