Tesla mandatory software update

[BL-NJ]

Long-time owner of a classic 2013 MS 60, long-time reader, first-time poster surprised to not see this topic in the forum...And proud user of software version 7.1 who has resisted software updates for over two years.

Came back from a week-long trip to find my car at the airport with a new message on the screen, something along the lines of "A new software update is available. Until it is scheduled or installed, functionality of the screen might be limited" and the option to press OK or SKIP.

Not wanting to accidentally schedule or install the update, I pressed SKIP. The message went away, and I was left with the usual window to schedule a software update for a particular time, or to install now. But unlike every day in the past two years, this window no longer has an 'X' to close the window (to allow opt-out of the update).

With the window unable to be closed, the screen is greyed out and only the top bar with the homelink/charging/lock/unlock and the bottom bar with the Controls button and the HVAC are usable, no music, navigation, browser, map or traffic can be accessed.

Thought the community might be interested to learn that apparently Tesla does not approve of users on old software, and has decided to forbid opting-out for at least users of really old software.

 

[Dameon]

The latest updated continued on it's own after "X"ing out of the message for a couple weeks. Apparently this was a forced update.

I wish I would have waited on the last update as that's the one that made the Autopilot nearly unusable with the 30 second wheel jiggle interval. My beanbag quit working, so I have to come up with a new solution.

 

[Saghost]

Wow. I'm still on 2018.14.2 - nothing since has offered me any new features, but they do come with tighter autopilot prompts. So far, I'm still able to X out, including the one it offered me this week.

 

[DOCAL]

I'd love to hear Tesla's explanation for the forced update. Unless you're leasing, the car is your property, so unless they have some sort of legal requirement to install a safety update, I don't see how they can justify forcing an unwanted change to your property.

 

[10dot]

As a developer, when I see things like this it makes me die a little inside.

Yes, autopilot nags might be more annoying. There might be some feature you like/don't like. Here's the honest truth though: for every line item on a set of release notes, there are probably a dozen or more bugs fixed that were too small to mention. Performance enhancements, minor interface tweaks that make life easier, etc.

I'm not saying everyone should run bleeding edge everything all the time... but what's the point of intentionally not updating for 2 whole years? You're basically knee-capping one of the best features of the car (OTA updates) and one of the *major* advantages it has over competing cars in its price range. If you fire up a 5 year old BMW or Audi it looks... 5 years old. If you fire up a 2013 model S with the latest software it looks basically identical to my brand new car that was just built.

 

[10dot]

I'd love to hear Tesla's explanation for the forced update. Unless you're leasing, the car is your property, so unless they have some sort of legal requirement to install a safety update, I don't see how they can justify forcing an unwanted change to your property.

My guess would be changes to the server side API/etc for all of those things that require client updates. You can keep around legacy versions of those things in a datacenter somewhere for a while, but after a time the technical debt becomes a real problem. You start having to shift developer resources off of working on new features and things like the 3 to maintaining/bugfixing/patching legacy *sugar*. Eventually enough of the engineers who worked on it originally leave/move on and it starts to become an even worse problem.

It's the same reason you have to update your facebook/netflix/whatever app on your phone periodically whether you like it or not or some features stop working/etc.

 

[DOCAL]

My guess would be changes to the server side API/etc for all of those things that require client updates. You can keep around legacy versions of those things in a datacenter somewhere for a while, but after a time the technical debt becomes a real problem. You start having to shift developer resources off of working on new features and things like the 3 to maintaining/bugfixing/patching legacy *sugar*. Eventually enough of the engineers who worked on it originally leave/move on and it starts to become an even worse problem.

It's the same reason you have to update your facebook/netflix/whatever app on your phone periodically whether you like it or not or some features stop working/etc.

I understand technical debt, but that's not a legally justified reason to make a change to someone else's property against their will.

Facebook etc don't force an update to the app on your phone against your will. Features may stop working, or they may prevent you from logging in to their servers entirely, but your property is yours to do with as you please unless there is a legal or contractual clause that says otherwise.

 

[verygreen]

Long-time owner of a classic 2013 MS 60, long-time reader, first-time poster surprised to not see this topic in the forum...And proud user of software version 7.1 who has resisted software updates for over two years.

Came back from a week-long trip to find my car at the airport with a new message on the screen, something along the lines of "A new software update is available. Until it is scheduled or installed, functionality of the screen might be limited" and the option to press OK or SKIP.

Not wanting to accidentally schedule or install the update, I pressed SKIP. The message went away, and I was left with the usual window to schedule a software update for a particular time, or to install now. But unlike every day in the past two years, this window no longer has an 'X' to close the window (to allow opt-out of the update).

With the window unable to be closed, the screen is greyed out and only the top bar with the homelink/charging/lock/unlock and the bottom bar with the Controls button and the HVAC are usable, no music, navigation, browser, map or traffic can be accessed.

Thought the community might be interested to learn that apparently Tesla does not approve of users on old software, and has decided to forbid opting-out for at least users of really old software.

I heard they no longer verify against old software versions so at times supercharger and other information is updated and causes the car software to crash in a looping fashion too. If you want to avoid upgrading - time to root

 

[E-Ryc]

As a developer, when I see things like this it makes me die a little inside.

Yes, autopilot nags might be more annoying. There might be some feature you like/don't like. Here's the honest truth though: for every line item on a set of release notes, there are probably a dozen or more bugs fixed that were too small to mention. Performance enhancements, minor interface tweaks that make life easier, etc.

I'm not saying everyone should run bleeding edge everything all the time... but what's the point of intentionally not updating for 2 whole years? You're basically knee-capping one of the best features of the car (OTA updates) and one of the *major* advantages it has over competing cars in its price range. If you fire up a 5 year old BMW or Audi it looks... 5 years old. If you fire up a 2013 model S with the latest software it looks basically identical to my brand new car that was just built.

On the other side, I can understand (as another sw developer) the user not to upgrade once he got struck by a really annoying (for him) bug like recently steering wheel buttons freezing media player when trying to switch FM stations (not touched for 3 major releases - 28, 32, 34).

Not mentioning the release management towards the customer - you don't get even the version to be installed (not mentioning release notes) before actually installing and there is no way back at that point. "Release notes" (as displayed in the car) are just joke (read: useless BS), not release notes. How about putting the real ones at least on web? Etc etc etc

 

[f205v]

Aren't updates mandatory to keep the warranty active?

 

[xyeahtony]

just download the update and use the same software the rest of us use. Some of the updates are actually useful. Your car doesn't even have AP so theres no "extra nags" excuse to worry about.

Reminds me of the time the company i knew of resisted upgrading from windows XP for 15 years and then only after security incident did everyone make the jump to windows 8.

 

[verygreen]

Your car doesn't even have AP so theres no "extra nags" excuse to worry about.

Of course there are plenty of excuses. USB media playback was broken for example. Somebody might not like the new UI (and behold - you'll hear another wave of unhappy people once the v9 UI appears where you cannot have two apps side by side as you can now).

Forcing software updates on people is just wrong and I fully understand people that would like to resist it for whatever reason they deem important.

 

[f205v]

where you cannot have two apps side by side as you can now

This is not confirmed yet; it was like this this in the only picture of an Alpha release on a test car. A little bit too scarce to make a final statement on it.

 

[whitex]

I understand technical debt, but that's not a legally justified reason to make a change to someone else's property against their will.

Facebook etc don't force an update to the app on your phone against your will. Features may stop working, or they may prevent you from logging in to their servers entirely, but your property is yours to do with as you please unless there is a legal or contractual clause that says otherwise.

Would "Tesla prevents you from operating the car" be an analog to "Facebook prevents you from logging in"? I think the entire car here is the giant Tesla app.

 

[whitex]

As a developer, when I see things like this it makes me die a little inside.

Yes, autopilot nags might be more annoying. There might be some feature you like/don't like. Here's the honest truth though: for every line item on a set of release notes, there are probably a dozen or more bugs fixed that were too small to mention. Performance enhancements, minor interface tweaks that make life easier, etc.

I'm not saying everyone should run bleeding edge everything all the time... but what's the point of intentionally not updating for 2 whole years? You're basically knee-capping one of the best features of the car (OTA updates) and one of the *major* advantages it has over competing cars in its price range. If you fire up a 5 year old BMW or Audi it looks... 5 years old. If you fire up a 2013 model S with the latest software it looks basically identical to my brand new car that was just built.

Over the years I had 2 dangerous updates from Tesla, one causing a very close call (almost an accident) and one causing a $600 in damage to the car. The first one was when my defrost button turned into a freeze button, leaving me driving off a highway with no visibility through the front windshield so with my head stuck out the window, the second one was the automatic mirror unfold which unfolded on my wife in a spot where it never did before (after she folded them) and completely broke off. Tesla fixed both software bugs in following releases, but didn't cover the broken mirror.

I update primarily for security purposes because its a connected device. Stopped caring about new features long time ago. Every update I cringe as to what is broken this time. I am already weary of the fact that v9 might disable split screen apps, which is how I like to use my car. I get that Elon or whoever might think they know better what I like, but they really don't. I really wish they'd offer LTS versions of software with only security patches and no new or broken functionality.

As for your comment on a 5 year old BMW, sure, it looks the same while Tesla has a new skin, but the controls on a 5 year old BMW work just as fast, vs. on a 5 year old Tesla they are much slower than they were (I had a 2013 MS, its controls were way faster than my 2015 MS today - same MCU). Oh, and I know that if I bought a new car today they would be faster (new MCU, my wife has it) but that means nothing to my older MCU car, actually it means all new software will count on the new speed which means mine will get slower and slower (think iPad2 today, sure has a new IOS but painfully slow). After the new MCU came out my old MCU stopped properly connecting to WiFi - it seems it now tells the access point that it is 5GHz capable while it really isn't (only new MCUs are) - I suspect a side effect of sharing code across the 2 MCU's.

Bottom line, there are many reasons not to upgrade, besides AP nags.

 

[Peteski]

What's so amazing about V7.1 that you wouldn't want to update? I'm guessing you just want to keep the status quo and not try to fix something that ain't broken, but things move on especially when it comes to software. Maybe V7.1 is becoming or about to become unsupportable? Have you spoken to Tesla about it?

 

[DOCAL]

Would "Tesla prevents you from operating the car" be an analog to "Facebook prevents you from logging in"? I think the entire car here is the giant Tesla app.

Personally I'd say an analog would be connected services. So the phone app, and maybe parts of the nav (traffic etc). Anything that has an API that they might have changed.

The phone API has changed a fair bit in the 2 years I've been logging my car. A few fields were removed, a lot more were added, but I guess they've maintained compatibility.

 

[Jrzapata]

I don't understand why would you want to ride on 2 year old software. One of the biggest advantages of these cars is OTA updates. I would justify Tesla to stop offering services such as map access, supercharging, and anything that has to do with access to their servers to anyone on software older than a couple months.

 

[kavyboy]

If I don't have any bugs that impact me, and there are no compelling new improvements, there's no reason to update and several good reasons not to update. As such, I'll stay on my current version, thankyouverymuch. And I say that as a software developer with a couple of decades under my belt. I've seen what "harmless updates" and "minor code fixes" can do. Heck, I've seen it with Tesla. (Why did heated steering wheels stop working a while back out of nowhere? How fragile is this code?!) After several years of ownership, I consider OTA updates a drawback. (Let the "Disagrees" roll on in! )

 

[demundus]

I don't understand why would you want to ride on 2 year old software. One of the biggest advantages of these cars is OTA updates. I would justify Tesla to stop offering services such as map access, supercharging, and anything that has to do with access to their servers to anyone on software older than a couple months.

Why would Tesla restrict access to maps (google maps loaded by internet), supercharging (a free service entered into via sales contract with no stipulations outside of non-salvage), or access to their servers RE: version of software the car is running? There are no real incidents of their network or system being compromised via an attack through a car... so the "updates" are merely preference. Not everyone likes the same thing, layout, functionality, or "improvements" to autopilot.

There are dozens of reasons not to update, nags being one of the most prominent. Forcing you to update is... interesting, and I'm sure a more irritable person might get litigious if this happened to them.