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Tesla mandatory software update

ShockOnT

⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Jun 26, 2016
3,413
3,200
Sydney
@kavyboy As an ex software developer of 20 years I wholeheartedly agree that updates cannot always be trusted, and Tesla in particular has made glaring and obvious errors (eg heated steering) that make it obvious their QA is not great.

The only caveat is that even if we don’t update our cars, they are still merrily updating the back end, so the real challenge is deciding which their QA team will balls up first: legacy support or front end code.

God only knows, but either is probably likely enough. I usually accept the updates just because I get bored and want to see something new, even at the risk of reduced functionality.
 

DanKC

Member
Nov 14, 2017
77
38
Kansas City
Does anyone know if you change your mind after selecting "update @ (whatever time)", if you can go back in before that update time and change it to skip the update?
Just found that the answer to this is yes. It's as easy as tapping the update notification again and postponing. I could have sworn the update notification disappeared after you scheduled it. But it doesn't now, at least on 28.
 
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I have joyfully watched as my Model X has gotten better and better with every update. I also do not enjoy the nags...

I'd say my S is getting worse and worse with every of recent updates (false nags, AP jail above some speed, steering wheel media buttons...) And no one gives a s**t about fixing.
 

verygreen

Curious member
Jan 16, 2017
2,954
11,535
TN
It's possible that this mandatory update is prep for version 9 updates. It's entirely possible that the car may not be able to handle a version 7.x to version 9.x update and they're forcing the update because your car would essentially be broken from their point of view.

That said, you should be allowed to keep your old software version if you choose, but Tesla shouldn't be obligated to continue to provide you support on the old version and that could include navigation data, streaming service or even supercharger authentication.

My first reaction is that it's probably an oversight on their part, not realizing that some people are intent on staying on the old software.
There were some stop-gap releases in the past and now 18.24 is one like this too. basically if you are on anything prior, you must get 18.24 first and then go further. their update server are smart enough not to offer you anything above 18.24 until you get to it so it should be fine.
 
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Jrzapata

Member
Jun 24, 2018
148
185
Texas
It's easy to understand - people dislike new "features". Whether it's due to the slower responsiveness of the UI, AP nags, or no-ability to show 2 apps simultaneously, it simply boils down to liking the old software functionality more. Maybe a different example would help you understand, imagine Tesla decided that for some "greater good" they will limit your acceleration to half of what your car can do today and limit your speed to travel only up to the detected speed limit. Would you happily apply this update, or would you hold on to your current software because like to drive 5 miles over the speed limit and accelerate fast?

From your picture it looks like you have a Model 3, which is very new so you don't have a long history with Tesla software. Wait 3 years when there are newer Model 3's and the software you get will be written for them, and just made work on yours. People who bought old non-AP cars for example at one point found themselves with instrument cluster from new AP cars replacing the speedometer/energy meter. Since they had no AP hardware, the graphic which took 50% of the screen had no functionality at all.

Alright I will concede on this one, I didn't think about the scenario where they would give you clusters for hardware you don't have. I figured the software would identify your car and just give you the information you need. But that is me thinking about good development practices.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,823
8,669
Seattle area, WA
Alright I will concede on this one, I didn't think about the scenario where they would give you clusters for hardware you don't have. I figured the software would identify your car and just give you the information you need. But that is me thinking about good development practices.
The problem is much, much, bigger than following good development practices. Tesla continues to evolve their hardware very quickly. A burden of supporting each version for 10+ years on a hardware which is 10 or 20 versions behind the current one is a prohibitive cost. Why do you think Microsoft doesn't support Windows 97, or XP, of Vista anymore? With rapid innovation comes obsolescence. Unfortunately this doesn't work well for products with 15 year lifecycle such as cars. At least for non-connected cars, obsolescence just means no new features - what you see is what you get, but for connected devices that means losing features and potentially being very vulnerable from a security point if view.

This is not just a Tesla problem, they just happen to be at the forefront. Imagine a 15 year old car with FSD capabilities which keeps on trying to connect to the internet to a server which may not even support it anymore, and the connection security is so old it can be hacked with latest computing power (it's the natural succession - what was considered secure 15 years ago can be brute forced today with GPU's and FPGA's for example, and old hardware cannot handle more secure implementations - see the whole debacle with key fobs using only 40-bit encryption if you want a Tesla example). Now, imagine that such a car, with self driving capabilities, can be hacked and controlled by some guy in his mother's basement, or by a state actor with malicious intent. Want to cause some damage, corrupt the "pedestrian avoidance" program into a "pedestrian targeting" program and launch a fleet of hacked cars on some unsuspecting city. Heck, imagine they can target specific people, so now you have a fleet of hitman cars which don't even have to be fully self driving, only when they see a probable target, steer towards it at max throttle (capabilities even Level 2 ADAS cars have today) - other times they just let the owner drive it.

Don't believe me? Go buy a PC from 15 years ago, see what software you can run on it today and how secure it's going to be.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,203
11,573
Connecticut
People who bought old non-AP cars for example at one point found themselves with instrument cluster from new AP cars replacing the speedometer/energy meter. Since they had no AP hardware, the graphic which took 50% of the screen had no functionality at all.

When did this happen? As far as I know, all non-AP hardware equipped cars still have the old speedo/energy display in the instrument cluster.

The problem you mention sounds like a few very early AP hardware equipped cars but without having any AP software enabled which had the AP display, but no functionality.
 

Electroman

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,515
7,848
TX
Yes, autopilot nags might be more annoying.

Annoying? how about it almost unusable. The two main reasons I even got a Tesla is it is an EV and has AP capability. So I really don't care for any other fixes or any new capabilities if AP becomes unusable.

Facebook etc don't force an update to the app on your phone against your will.

Of course they do. I have had almost every App at some point force me to update or quit.
 

⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

Safety Score of 97
Jul 15, 2016
2,930
5,768
Pacific Northwest
Don't believe me? Go buy a PC from 15 years ago, see what software you can run on it today and how secure it's going to be.
My 14 yr old PC is running Windows 10 perfectly, but I get your point. My iPad 1 is mostly useless. I wonder if it's as simple as just replacing the MCU to keep the car compatible with future software iterations. Or are there other computers in the car that would have to be replaced too? Besides the FSD one and MCU.
 

drklain

Active Member
Dec 17, 2016
1,089
1,124
Fairfax, VA/Brussels, BE
When did this happen? As far as I know, all non-AP hardware equipped cars still have the old speedo/energy display in the instrument cluster.

The problem you mention sounds like a few very early AP hardware equipped cars but without having any AP software enabled which had the AP display, but no functionality.
I don't remember when it happened, but someone recently posted a picture of the difference. The original dashboard speedo/energy display (the big round circle with speed in the middle, was changed to the AP display (car view, digital speed number above it) and then updated again to a display similar to the original gauge but different in how it displayed speed and power utilization. One thing they did was move the "power remaining" indicator (the battery "gas gauge" from the center speedo to the location the rest of us see at lower left of the center section of the dashboard display. I don't have one of those early generation cars but can see them missing the display they used to have and not liking the new one they have (which is close to, but not exactly the same as before).
 

quantumslip

Member
Mar 3, 2015
488
563
Earth
people complain about how windows is annoying with their updates (especially windows 10), but then you see articles like this:

Unpatched systems at big companies continue to fall to WannaMine worm

So you can why Tesla may want to force updates.

At the same time I have also seen articles on the flip side where Windows patches have bricked and caused issues with the system themselves; the majority is find but there's always that few percentage that has issues.

I can understand why some may be hesitant to update. However, do not be surprised if one day Tesla cuts you off from various features (like with Windows, how versions eventually reach EOL).
 

TaoJones

Beyond Driven
Nov 10, 2014
3,064
3,028
The Americas
As a developer, when I see things like this it makes me die a little inside.

Yes, autopilot nags might be more annoying. There might be some feature you like/don't like. Here's the honest truth though: for every line item on a set of release notes, there are probably a dozen or more bugs fixed that were too small to mention. Performance enhancements, minor interface tweaks that make life easier, etc.

I'm not saying everyone should run bleeding edge everything all the time... but what's the point of intentionally not updating for 2 whole years? You're basically knee-capping one of the best features of the car (OTA updates) and one of the *major* advantages it has over competing cars in its price range. If you fire up a 5 year old BMW or Audi it looks... 5 years old. If you fire up a 2013 model S with the latest software it looks basically identical to my brand new car that was just built.

What are these things to which you refer... "release notes"?

OH - those. Those which have somehow become optional instead of mandatory/best practice for every public release. Release. Release notes. Kinda like peanut butter and chocolate, really. Never would I have dreamed, back in the day (*gets the *good* cane and dentures*), that a public company, let alone one with a reasonably critical product, would release anything without at least a single sentence of release notes. For years I opined that at bare minimum we should have the benefit of "Minor bug fixes and performance enhancements." so that at least we'd know what a release was *not*. Sometimes now we get that, and sometimes not. Instead, most of the time, it's a big treasure hunt to see who can think they've found what that may or may not be new functionality. Or repaired brokenness.

Nobody is suggesting that we get chapter and verse, as to your point many things get fixed that don't rise to the threshold of need-to-know. But there's a long way between nothing and something, as it were. Best practices? What? Heh.
 
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Krazaak

Member
Jul 30, 2017
916
1,024
Charlotte, NC
What are these things to which you refer... "release notes"?

OH - those. Those which have somehow become optional instead of mandatory/best practice for every public release. Release. Release notes. Kinda like peanut butter and chocolate, really. Never would I have dreamed, back in the day (*gets the *good* cane and dentures*), that a public company, let alone one with a reasonably critical product, would release anything without at least a single sentence of release notes. For years I opined that at bare minimum we should have the benefit of "Minor bug fixes and performance enhancements." so that at least we'd know what a release was *not*. Sometimes now we get that, and sometimes not. Instead, most of the time, it's a big treasure hunt to see who can think they've found what that may or may not be new functionality. Or repaired brokenness.

Nobody is suggesting that we get chapter and verse, as to your point many things get fixed that don't rise to the threshold of need-to-know. But there's a long way between nothing and something, as it were. Best practices? What? Heh.
I strongly believe that Tesla should be making release notes available for updates before they're installed. It can be through the Tesla website instead of the car, so people who don't need to see it don't have to review them.

There's so much noise around updates, with people claiming AP got better/worse with each update or how Tesla's cut max acceleration. If some of these features are still in beta, then the beta testers should know what to expect in regards to changes.
 
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SpudLime

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
1,424
2,555
Leesburg, Va
people complain about how windows is annoying with their updates (especially windows 10), but then you see articles like this:

Unpatched systems at big companies continue to fall to WannaMine worm

So you can why Tesla may want to force updates.

At the same time I have also seen articles on the flip side where Windows patches have bricked and caused issues with the system themselves; the majority is find but there's always that few percentage that has issues.

I can understand why some may be hesitant to update. However, do not be surprised if one day Tesla cuts you off from various features (like with Windows, how versions eventually reach EOL).


Cant say this enough. I was at the RSA security conference this year and it was stated that like 90% of the firms that got compromised would not have been had they focused on good patch management as the vulnerabilities that took advantage of them already had a fix if only they updated their equipment regularly.
 
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Electroman

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,515
7,848
TX
Everytime I read one of these threads I am so grateful my car was delivered in June with 14.3 and its an awesome version.. No frequent nag and nothing newer that is worth upgrading yet!
+100

Same here. I am super happy with an older low-nag version of AP. I really don't give two hoots to any so called AP improvements Tesla may have released. I have been dismissing the update windows, that I don't even get prompted for any releases anymore. So now I am nag free for both AP and updates.

Happy camper. Car and AP drives like a dream. Thanks Tesla.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,823
8,669
Seattle area, WA
When did this happen? As far as I know, all non-AP hardware equipped cars still have the old speedo/energy display in the instrument cluster.

The problem you mention sounds like a few very early AP hardware equipped cars but without having any AP software enabled which had the AP display, but no functionality.
You might be right. My nonAP car was gone by then, so this is not first hand. I do remember a number of people here and Tesla forums complaining about having the car icon which did nothing, instead of the old gauge. I know today old cars have it, I just figured they brought it back because of the backlash.
 

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