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Tesla may have been on Autopilot in California crash which killed two

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by Bladerskb, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    Tesla may have been on Autopilot in California crash which killed two

    "Authorities assign investigation team that specializes in Autopilot system incidents to inspect Tesla Model S that hit Honda Civic.

    The black Tesla had left a freeway and was moving at a high rate of speed when it ran a red light and slammed into a Honda Civic at an intersection, police said. A man and woman in the Civic died at the scene. A man and woman in the Tesla were hospitalized with non-life threatening injuries. No arrests were immediately made.

    An NHTSA statement said the agency has assigned its special crash investigation team to inspect the car and the crash scene. That team has inspected 13 crashes involving Tesla vehicles the agency believed were operating on the Autopilot system."
     
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  2. ChrML

    ChrML Member

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    Doesn't matter. Autopilot was used in a way outside the stated capabilities of the current released version.

    But I guess that doesn't matter to you, as long as its negative publicity around Tesla.

     
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  3. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    It matters to me because if people use Autopilot improperly often enough that it reduces road safety then the NHTSA will ban it on public roads...
    It is very important for Tesla Autopilot owners to be aware of these incidents! Reading the warnings in the manual is clearly not enough for some people.
     
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  4. Superendo

    Superendo Member

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    Conclusion can only be: driver at fault.
    Even If AP is activated the driver should be in control and ready to take over, especially when used out of the designated ecology.

    intersection and traffic lights screem city to me. But even if not driven in the city it still is the drivers choice to activate AP en with it comes full responsibility.


    Terrible outcome, I feel sorry for the dead and wounded and their families.
     
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  5. boonedocks

    boonedocks Active Member

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    I wish there was a place to see how many accidents happen with drivers using “traditional” cruise control. It should be publicized as much or more than these type of “news releases”. I absolutely hold Tesla accountable for many things but not “idiots”
     
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  6. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, if traditional cruise control is making the roads less safe it should be banned. I haven't seen any evidence of that and it's a pretty mature technology. Logically I can't see how cruise control could make a car less safe when used in the real world.
    Driver assist systems are new and obviously subject to abuse. The way people use them changes over time and publicizing the stories about complacency should make them safer. I don't see what any of this has to do with accountability, who's at fault doesn't really matter if people driving cars with Autopilot get into more accidents.
     
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  7. patrick40363

    patrick40363 Active Member

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    There was a driver in the Tesla who is responsible for driving of the car.
     
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  8. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Well-Known Member

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    Not sure Autopilot would be any more to blame than if a legacy ICE vehicle left the freeway with Cruise Control still activated.
     
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  9. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    There were pilots in the two Boeing 737 MAX that crashed that were responsible for flying the planes...
     
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  10. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be any more to blame. Why is everyone talking about blame? Whether Autopilot is safe in real world use has nothing to do with who is to blame.
     
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  11. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Well-Known Member

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    A simple tap on the brakes or a little turn of the wheel, and Autopilot disconnects.
     
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  12. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    You don't see any reason why a system that keeps a car going at high speed regardless of the condition of the driver (or the roads) could be unsafe? There is a reason trains and subways have a dead man switch.
     
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  13. Cycle11111

    Cycle11111 Member

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    So are I saying nearly all cruse controls are unsafe - if you take an exit or use cruise control on a surface street and are not paying attention same result. This appears like driver was inattentive as any brake or steering wheel input would have cancelled AP and/or TACC.
     
  14. DanCar

    DanCar Active Member

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  15. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Well-Known Member

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    I read about that last year, and the first thing I thought about was NoA must have been on.

    It's either that or it's simply a result of excessive speed. In any case I do believe the driver should be held responsible for killing two people. The only thing that would free the driver of responsibility if they had some medical incident at the time.

    I don't believe there is anything about Autopilot as it exist today that makes it more dangerous than competing systems that also rely on torque sensors to measure driver attention.

    I think what we're going to see is that torque sensors will be banned from being used to monitor driver engagement as they are obviously not effective.

    It turns out that lots of people are abusing driver assistant systems regardless of the make/model of the vehicle.

    www.seattletimes.com › seattle-news › transportation › new-study-adapti...New study: Adaptive cruise-control and other driver ...
     
  16. drtimhill

    drtimhill Active Member

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    <pedantic mode ON> The phrase "high rate of speed" always bugs me. Law enforcement seem to use it a lot to make things sound grander and more "legalistic", but in fact it is nonsense. "Speed" means "rate of change of position" so saying "high rate of speed" is saying "high rate of rate change of position", which is tautological nonsense. All you need to say is "high speed". <pedantic mode OFF>
     
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  17. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    Trains and subways are on tracks. I'm totally open to the possibility that cruise control is unsafe and should not be on cars. I think that any small increase in accidents due to driver incapacitation while using cruise control are probably more than offset by a decrease in accidents by people using cruise control to limit their speed. It seems like many people are not even open to the possibility that driver assist systems can reduce road safety.
     
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  18. seattlite2004

    seattlite2004 Active Member

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  19. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    Worse than that, mfrs have been found culpable for customer misuse that no reasonable person would have foreseen. Shell Oil Co was found culpable when a worker at some job site decided to weld two empty 55 gal drums together to make a platform to stand on. Solvent fumes inside the drums exploded and killed him. Completely the fault of the welder.

    The drums had been bought from a distributor who filled them with a chemical solvent bought in bulk from another distributor who had bought it, also in bulk, from Shell. Even with three-party separation and with no connection whatever to the filler of the drums, much less the ultimate consumer, Shell was found liable.

    That sort of ridiculous liability law is why one sees warnings on lawn mowers saying "Not for use trimming hedges" or, on the intake orifice of a commercial vacuum device, a warning label stating "Do not insert penis here."
     
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