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Tesla mining and refining

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Buckminster

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2018
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51,067
UK
Elon mentioned the possibility at the 2019 shareholders meeting. Unclear what is required or timelines (if ever).

It seems to me that:
p200136eeg60001.jpg

Looks a lot like like:
anigif_sub-buzz-1428-1493406616-1.gif


Is it possible that they can use the Boring Co. and find resource rich places that require improved infrastucture? I can't see Elon getting involved in surface mining. Thoughts?
 
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I was wondering the same thing. I don't know anything about mining. But I would think that at least some of the boring skillset can be leveraged to pivot to mining. The knowledge of soils and layers of earth, for ex. Boring Co prob has a good knowledge base on that, or on how to determine/find what the earth makeup is in various parts of the world. There is probably though a lot of new equipment they would have to buy.
 
Boring Co. has shown zero expertise in the aspects of boring which translate to mining, unfortunately.

Although lithium extraction is really more like drilling than like mining. And drilling is a lot more like boring tunnels than mining is.
 
Hello,

I’m a long time lurker… first post. Thanks to all posters for the great information (my clinical obsession), and especially for the time to create such thoughtful discussion and sharing.

My question is for those who know so much more about lithium mining, and Tesla Batteries.

Is it possible there’s any potential thread to follow between these items - or am I finally off the deep end?

  • The giddy talk over Battery Investor day, Tesla mining, and Tesla being "masters of their own destiny" regarding cell production.
“ Tesla ...also plans to invest directly in lithium heavyweight SQM to strengthen a foothold in Chile, the current owner of ~50% of the world’s lithium mining rights.

“...Chilean officials recently took to the road in Europe, Japan and South Korea to pitch another auction to battery makers, this one slated for early 2020 and offering discounted lithium from SQM for companies willing to build plants in Chile.

As a bonus, the Reuters article also mentions that Chilean regulators are holding back permits for additional lithium production over environmental concerns, saying, “...the miner (Albermarle) had failed to prove that it had the technology necessary to produce the extra lithium without straining water resources.”


I’m curious if perhaps some combination of a technology/engineering solution and investment could land Tesla with significant market advantage in secured lithium to meet the needs of the growing product line?

I have been expecting Battery Investor day to showcase an impressive Maxwell-based roadmap, but wonder if there could also be more to the story - and if so, might it have any significance beyond common expectations?

Thanks for any insight!
 
From main thread:
Also, to spell it out why Tesla must get into mining: 90%+ of the required battery grade nickel sulphide extraction and refinery capacity simply does not exist today.

Tesla has two main choices:
  • 1) Pay other companies to do this, who will use Tesla's multi-year purchase guarantees to gain financing from banks, expand their capacity on their own schedule and sell the output to Tesla. The disadvantages:
    • Tesla will be exposed to the financing and schedule risks of others,
    • There's 2-3 financing and investment middlemen who'll all want their cut,
    • Tesla will have no control over the mining output, exposing themselves to the likes of the 2017 cobalt shenanigans: when the leading cobalt producer cornered the market and speculators (including prominent Tesla shorts...) drove up world cobalt prices,
    • as Tesla learned it the hard way with Panasonic: synchronizing expansion of battery capacity creates friction and constant pricing risk. Panasonic actually toured competing car company representatives at the Gigafactory, in the summer of 2018, should Tesla fail ...
    • Tesla's competitors will gain access to the developed output: Tesla will have paid for the expansion that then goes to competitors...
    • even with long term purchase contracts Tesla will be exposed to the volatility of world nickel sulphide prices.
  • 2) Or Tesla can develop the nickel sulphide output themselves. Higher upfront financing costs, but vastly lower downstream risks and perfectly synchronized growth. No CoGs volatility risks other than energy and labor costs.
Basically a "commodity" is only a true commodity for Tesla's growth purposes if it's available right now and in the foreseeable future with healthy competition keeping prices under control.

Nickel sulphide is not such a commodity, and it's the primary long term driving factor of battery kWh costs.
 
from the getting stoned interview dropping in 2 days.
He has no desire to get into the mining industry - BUT he WILL if necessary - remember, he thought Tesla would have done its part and remain a niche car maker after the Model S came out and the heavies (GM/ Ford/ Nissan etc ) would get into EV's. BUT when he realized they were NOT going to follow suit he decided to go all in, max full production mode - with the predictable response from Wall St and that infamous 2018 moment he had to abide by Wall St wishes .... only to finally get the upper hand again, liberating himself from the US with .... China's help.
 
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from the getting stoned interview dropping in 2 days.

Battery Day mentioned Lithium extraction from clay and Tesla apparently held a lease or rights over some land in Nevada.

Elon and Drew frequently talk about raw materials. The cathode plant at Austin will be doing some Lithium processing.

However, overall the impression I am getting is that Tesla is reluctant to get into mining, but not necessarily reluctant about processing.

So Plan A is others do the mining.

I still think that the Lithium clay extraction process might happen, becuase the mining part might be more like earthmoving.
 
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Battery Day mentioned Lithium extraction from clay and Tesla apparently held a lease or rights over some land in Nevada.

Elon and Drew frequently talk about raw materials. The cathode plant at Austin will be doing some Lithium processing.

However, overall the impression I am getting is that Tesla is reluctant to get into mining, but not necessarily reluctant about processing.

So Plan A is others do the mining.

I still think that the Lithium clay extraction process might happen, becuase the mining part might be more like earthmoving.
May not be opposed to creating better equipment for mining also.
 
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Battery Day mentioned Lithium extraction from clay and Tesla apparently held a lease or rights over some land in Nevada.

Elon and Drew frequently talk about raw materials. The cathode plant at Austin will be doing some Lithium processing.

However, overall the impression I am getting is that Tesla is reluctant to get into mining, but not necessarily reluctant about processing.

So Plan A is others do the mining.

I still think that the Lithium clay extraction process might happen, becuase the mining part might be more like earthmoving.
I'm curious as to where. LAC (Lithium Americas) is developing Thacker Pass, supposed to come on line later this year IIRC.
 
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