Tesla Model 3 — 10 Facts Gleaned From CAEATFA Application

[jonnyg]

Tesla Model 3 — 10 Facts Gleaned From CAEATFA Application

Some mildly interesting tidbits, since we are all dying for any new morsels of information to go crazy with.

 

[JeffK]

Keep in mind when that was filed in 2015 before many of the latest manufacturing and production quantity decisions were made.
http://cdn.dailykanban.com/wp-conte...TFA_Application-TESLA-11-16-2015_Redacted.pdf

In addition, it was far before pencils down...

 

[McRat]

Am I reading that right? $2.2 Billion in California taxes to get it rolling? Or do I misunderstand that?

 

[JeffK]

Am I reading that right? $2.2 Billion in California taxes to get it rolling? Or do I misunderstand that?

It's to generate a score. The sales tax exclusion program can only award up to $100 million per year.
CAEATFA STE Frequently Asked Questions

Remember this is just an application, not an award...

 

[jonnyg]

Keep in mind when that was filed in 2015 before many of the latest manufacturing and production quantity decisions were made.
http://cdn.dailykanban.com/wp-conte...TFA_Application-TESLA-11-16-2015_Redacted.pdf

In addition, it was far before pencils down...

Understood. I figured it would be fun to speculate on some new, albeit a little out of date, information and not the same information we've been beating to death.

 

[JeffK]

It's so out of date that we already know Tesla was awarded $39,037,225

 

[Az_Rael]

What about the estimated efficiency number? I think that's the first time I have seen that. How does 318 compare to the Model S?

 

[Red Sage]

California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority (CAEATFA)

The California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority (CAEATFA) works collaboratively with public and private partners to provide innovative and effective financing solutions for California’s industries, assisting in reducing the state’s greenhouse gas emissions by increasing the development and deployment of renewable energy sources, energy efficiency, and advanced transportation and manufacturing technologies to reduce air pollution, conserve energy, and promote economic development and jobs.

Hmmm... I'll have to investigate this a bit further. The numbers quoted above seem to be extremely beneficial to Tesla Motors, though perhaps over a rather long span of time. This is the sort of thing that is likely to add fuel to the fires of those who feel Tesla is supported entirely by the government, even if it turns out this is a deferment of taxes or is ultimately beneficial to the State as a whole by having more employed taxpayers. Its existence will also explain further why Tesla didn't take more money from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) loan program to complete the Model ☰ and Gigafactory preparation, rather than going to Wall Street.

 

[McRat]

What about the estimated efficiency number? I think that's the first time I have seen that. How does 318 compare to the Model S?

That 318wH per mile is bizarre. That cannot be right.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that 188 miles off a 60kWh battery?

60,000wH of battery / 318 wH/mi = 188 miles?

 

[Red Sage]

What about the estimated efficiency number? I think that's the first time I have seen that. How does 318 compare to the Model S?

The Model S in various configurations is rated from 320 Wh per mile to 350 Wh per mile. I think that some of the older versions were rated at as much as 370 Wh per mile, though.

EPA | Compare Side-by-Side -- Model S 60, Model S 60D, Model S 90D, Model S P100D

That 318wH per mile is bizarre. That cannot be right.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that 188 miles off a 60kWh battery?

60,000wH of battery / 318 wH/mi = 188 miles?

Don't forget that you must allow for the reserve capacity within a battery pack that is used for anti-bricking protection. I generally presume that amount is roughly 10%, so a 60 kWh Capacity may only have around 54 kWh available for use. Also, I have many times referred to the EPA's formulas as presuming you are spilling electrons on the floor of your garage each time you fill up your electric car. I don't think it is a fair practice. But their ratings seem to be more financial than actual anyway. They include something like 17% of induction losses while charging and penalize the Wh per mile calculation by that amount.

 

[JeffK]

What about the estimated efficiency number? I think that's the first time I have seen that. How does 318 compare to the Model S?

It's likely just an estimate...
P100D
100,000 Wh / 315 mi = 317.46 Wh/mi

 

[McRat]

That makes sense. They just filled in a number because they had no data yet.

 

[Vitold]

Cleantechnica is going to the dogs reprinting dailyKanban speculations.

 

[trils0n]

My Model S P85 has a lifetime average 304Wh/mile. The Monroney Sticker said 38kWh/100 miles. Or 380Wh/mile. Believe this number includes the amount of energy from the wall, not battery, so includes charger (in)efficiency. If 318Wh/mile is the estimated Monroney sticker number, that is a nice improvement.

Unfortunately, Mr. Niedermeyer (who runs Daily Kanban where these "facts" came from) will spin this to mean something completely different with intentionally misleading out of context info (like that this application was from Nov 2015!), just like all of Mr. Niedermeyer and Mr. Schmitts articles about Tesla.

Remember: They are paid to write negative articles.

Edward Niedermeyer and Bertel Schmitt are available to work for hire, but not for $25 a post. Interested outlets and companies, please use the contact box.

Cleantechnica is going to the dogs reprinting dailyKanban speculations.

 

[MP3Mike]

That 318wH per mile is bizarre. That cannot be right.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that 188 miles off a 60kWh battery?

60,000wH of battery / 318 wH/mi = 188 miles?

But you have to take into account regen too, which can vary wildly depending on your route/driving style. So in a car with a 60kWh battery that starts with a 100% charge you can use more than 60kWhs of power before you are on empty. (Of course the 318Wh/mi could already include that in the calculation.)

 

[McRat]

That 318 number most likely just a number they plugged in from another car, it has nothing to do with losses from the wall.

The Volt is 310wH from the wall based on EPA cycle, and the Bolt is 280wH from the wall based on EPA.

Both have worse aero than the Model S. The newest, lowest Model S numbers are 320wH from the wall on EPA cycle. The Model 3 should handily thump the Model S in wH/mi. If it's going to have a < 60kWh battery, it will have to beat that by a lot.

 

[SageBrush]

What about the estimated efficiency number?

I presume the number includes charging losses and is combined city/highway.

No easy way to jump to estimates of highway range.