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Tesla Model 3 — 10 Facts Gleaned From CAEATFA Application

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by jonnyg, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. jonnyg

    jonnyg Member

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    • Informative x 1
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    • Informative x 3
  3. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Am I reading that right? $2.2 Billion in California taxes to get it rolling? Or do I misunderstand that?
     
  4. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    It's to generate a score. The sales tax exclusion program can only award up to $100 million per year.
    CAEATFA STE Frequently Asked Questions

    Remember this is just an application, not an award...
     
  5. jonnyg

    jonnyg Member

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  6. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    It's so out of date that we already know Tesla was awarded $39,037,225
     
  7. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Active Member

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    What about the estimated efficiency number? I think that's the first time I have seen that. How does 318 compare to the Model S?
     
  8. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Hmmm... I'll have to investigate this a bit further. The numbers quoted above seem to be extremely beneficial to Tesla Motors, though perhaps over a rather long span of time. This is the sort of thing that is likely to add fuel to the fires of those who feel Tesla is supported entirely by the government, even if it turns out this is a deferment of taxes or is ultimately beneficial to the State as a whole by having more employed taxpayers. Its existence will also explain further why Tesla didn't take more money from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) loan program to complete the Model ☰ and Gigafactory preparation, rather than going to Wall Street.
     
  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That 318wH per mile is bizarre. That cannot be right.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that 188 miles off a 60kWh battery?

    60,000wH of battery / 318 wH/mi = 188 miles?
     
  10. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    #10 Red Sage, Oct 6, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
    The Model S in various configurations is rated from 320 Wh per mile to 350 Wh per mile. I think that some of the older versions were rated at as much as 370 Wh per mile, though.

    EPA | Compare Side-by-Side -- Model S 60, Model S 60D, Model S 90D, Model S P100D

    Don't forget that you must allow for the reserve capacity within a battery pack that is used for anti-bricking protection. I generally presume that amount is roughly 10%, so a 60 kWh Capacity may only have around 54 kWh available for use. Also, I have many times referred to the EPA's formulas as presuming you are spilling electrons on the floor of your garage each time you fill up your electric car. I don't think it is a fair practice. But their ratings seem to be more financial than actual anyway. They include something like 17% of induction losses while charging and penalize the Wh per mile calculation by that amount.
     
  11. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    It's likely just an estimate...
    P100D
    100,000 Wh / 315 mi = 317.46 Wh/mi
     
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  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That makes sense. They just filled in a number because they had no data yet.
     
  13. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    Cleantechnica is going to the dogs reprinting dailyKanban speculations.
     
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  14. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    My Model S P85 has a lifetime average 304Wh/mile. The Monroney Sticker said 38kWh/100 miles. Or 380Wh/mile. Believe this number includes the amount of energy from the wall, not battery, so includes charger (in)efficiency. If 318Wh/mile is the estimated Monroney sticker number, that is a nice improvement.

    Unfortunately, Mr. Niedermeyer (who runs Daily Kanban where these "facts" came from) will spin this to mean something completely different with intentionally misleading out of context info (like that this application was from Nov 2015!), just like all of Mr. Niedermeyer and Mr. Schmitts articles about Tesla.

    Remember: They are paid to write negative articles.

     
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  15. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    But you have to take into account regen too, which can vary wildly depending on your route/driving style. So in a car with a 60kWh battery that starts with a 100% charge you can use more than 60kWhs of power before you are on empty. (Of course the 318Wh/mi could already include that in the calculation.)
     
  16. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That 318 number most likely just a number they plugged in from another car, it has nothing to do with losses from the wall.

    The Volt is 310wH from the wall based on EPA cycle, and the Bolt is 280wH from the wall based on EPA.

    Both have worse aero than the Model S. The newest, lowest Model S numbers are 320wH from the wall on EPA cycle. The Model 3 should handily thump the Model S in wH/mi. If it's going to have a < 60kWh battery, it will have to beat that by a lot.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    I presume the number includes charging losses and is combined city/highway.

    No easy way to jump to estimates of highway range.
     

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