Regardless of the truck, she shouldn't have slammed on the brakes trying to stop like that. The ambulance had a red light, and they were stopped, waiting for traffic to clear like they should have. Not sure how you canucks do it but here in the states an ambulance doesn't have free reign just because lights are on, they have to ensure that traffic is clear and stopped before running lights and I always come to a stop on red. As such, your wife shouldn't have put herself and others in danger slamming on the breaks for a green light, if she missed the ambulance then she goes through her green light and the ambulance can wait at their red for traffic to stop.
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Tesla model 3 accident with a Mack truck
- Thread starter Iceman8
- Start date
I agree based on others comments she didn't slam on brakes. But she stopped modestly fast but smooth. I expect the truck just never expected her to stop and he might have been distracted by ambulance as well (give the guy a break). He might of also had a harder time to see the ambulance and another reason he was caught off guard. Even though the truck could probably stop, I wouldn't call it the trucks fault either.
I think the OP's wife felt she could safely stop in time, but if your going to do that you need to check if you can safely do it, because it is unusual. Of course it's easier saying that than being in the situation yourself.
It looked like tricky timing and some bad luck.
Kira
Member
Really hope your wife is okay, @Iceman8
I'm sure that I'd have reacted in much the same way that she did. We were all taught to immediately yield to emergency vehicles with lights/siren on - that's really stuck with me over the years and is probably exacerbated by the fact that I work in health care now.
I'm sure that I'd have reacted in much the same way that she did. We were all taught to immediately yield to emergency vehicles with lights/siren on - that's really stuck with me over the years and is probably exacerbated by the fact that I work in health care now.
Agreed, and the law here works much the same. In this instance, there was no siren, and the ambulance was stopped at its red light, with the intention of crossing only when safe to do so at a green light, which is what it did do as seen in the footage from the rear camera... The law here demands drivers pull over to the right upon hearing and seeing an ambulance approaching from the rear, which most drivers do. There is no law demanding drivers to actively and abruptly stop when seeing an ambulance stopped at a red light without an engaged siren, as was the situation here. Also, the highway code requires that drivers use the right lane except for overtaking on a multi-lane roadway, and so she should have been driving in the right lane to begin with instead of needlessly being in the left lane on this 4-lane road, especially when the right lane was absolutely empty all the while when driving through multiple intersections. Had she heard a siren, she would have been able to quickly pull over to the right and stop with care and diligence. But since she heard no siren, but only saw a stationary ambulance, albeit with its lights on, there was no need whatsoever for her to have stopped right at the intersection at a green light full of moving traffic. Luckily, no one was hurt, but there is shared responsibility here.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Regen braking at the higher speeds won't engage the brake lights until it hits a certain threshold (kind of like engine braking does not set off the brakes in an ICEV). From personal experience, the brake lights on the HUD model doesn't kick in between ~140kph to 120kph and 85kph to 65kph. Also gives out at very low speeds when the change of momentum is not greater than the set threshold. It regens but won't light up the back brake bar light.
Why does this issue of regen brake lights always come up. People have been grabbing gears in standards to avoid braking since the dawn of the automobile. I personally think its a bad idea to rapidly decelerate on a green light in front of a very large heavy vehicle going down hill. Yes the truck is legally at fault but this is a very easy way to get people killed. People suggesting a dump truck can stop in its own length or should have just swerved is laughable.
Defensive driving is very important in GTA or any other big city. Just because you are right doesn't make it correct. The front and center objective is to drive safe and stay alive. I see so many drivers cut abruptly in front of those 18 wheelers, and man those 18 wheeler drive very fast, I'm not going to be in front or even behind them, unless there is ample space in between.
Since you're in Ontario, I would think these should still apply to you:
Road safety: Emergency vehicles
specifically:
In an intersection
- traffic in all directions must yield to emergency vehicles
- don't block the intersection
- if an emergency vehicle is approaching from behind you, don't make a left turn - proceed straight through the intersection, then pull to the right and stop
Yes, technically she could have moved over to the right late before to potentially avoid the accident, but the fact is she didn't. Technically, the truck should have also been driving in the right late then too, but he wasn't.
If you were in the right lane with the truck there too, would you then move over 'needlessly' to the fast lane to avoid having a large truck not drive behind you?
Bottom line, if my wife had the time to stop, the vehicles driving behind her should have enough time to stop. If the truck driver was attentive and hit the brakes immediately, it would have been close, but the fact is it seems like he was distracted and didn't hit the brakes at all until after the crash. It's not like she was braking at the intersection for kicks...she had a good reason to.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Agreed, we can analyze this and that. At the end of the day, the car protected it's precious cargo from an unsafe driver and unfortunate situation. Kind of weird there was no siren approaching an intersection, they usually do blare it if approaching a red. If we're going to play what if's - lets start with the butterfly effect of whatever incident called the ambulance in the first place
.This situation = Truck at fault for following dangerously too close for the speed traveling; fin~
I disagree, she was close to a full stop "before" the intersection (still room for ambulance to pass).
But you are right, it does look like she was well over the cross walk (a good car length into the intersection, but not the "middle").
That may have thrown the truck driver off as well that it looks like she was gonna go through and going too fast to stop safely.
I'm not excusing the truck driver. He should have, could have stopped in time, certainly slowed down.
But I can also see this confusing from the being behind her.
Maybe the truck driver was looking BEHIND HIM to see if someone will ram him !!
He may of judged (incorrectly) that she won't be stopping, like you said why stop in the intersection.
He looked in the mirror to see what was behind him and by the time he looked forward, wham.
I'm giving the truck driver the benefit of doubt here.
Agreed, we can analyze this and that. At the end of the day, the car protected it's precious cargo from an unsafe driver and unfortunate situation. Kind of weird there was no siren approaching an intersection, they usually do blare it if approaching a red. If we're going to play what if's - lets start with the butterfly effect of whatever incident called the ambulance in the first place
This situation = Truck at fault for following dangerously too close for the speed traveling; fin~
He wasn't to close. He *may* have been watching his rear end.
I think OP's wife caused the accident. Sorry. I'm glad she's ok. And I know the truck driver could have been better, but he did not cause this.
But if the truck did stop, he may have caused an accident behind him. He might have been in a no win situation.
She could not safely stop, before the intersection and factoring in what is behind her.
I understand why she did what she did, it felt right, and it's not easy in the moment, but she should not have stopped.
The siren was not on because it was not an emergency. I see non emergency ambulances all the time. They are taking someone to a nursing home or something.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Well, lets blame the lack of enforcement of:
1) Keep to the right unless passing rule (not law) on our roads (both parties are at fault here, so is our crappy government and lack of backbone to make it a law).
2) Following too close (Truck is guilty here).
3) Lack of proper driver education and training. Lets face it, our driver licensing program in Ontario is a joke - truck drivers, even worse?
The OPP could start an entire new division of just traffic cops and it'd be generating revenue from handing out speeding tickets from day one.
Having conversed with an experienced traffic lawyer: he assures me the law does not require that one must "yield" to an emergency vehicle stopped at a red traffic light, as it is not moving and thus there is nothing to "yield" to. The mere presence of such vehicles is not grounds for deference and does not in itself create an imperative to yield. These are legal arguments that according to him, have been successfully won in court. However, every case is always different in some way, and only the circumstances and parties directly involved, including unbiased witnesses, can affect legal outcomes if it came to that. Again, very glad your wife was OK, particularly considering the amount of shock and damage, and wish a good outcome for you all.
I don't think he was too close. Possibly, but I don't think he was.
If they were both in right lane, why would it playout any different.
Looks like right lane there is for right turn (I've watched the video to many times to look again
)I think this was a little tricky because it was flashing ambulance with no siren. If they were gonna run a red light, they would definitely blast their siren, they are extremely cautious going through red lights, they will make sure it's clear. And this was obviously not clear.
She was ok to go.
I think she should have gone through and pulled over. In case ambulance turned her way.
I know she thought she did the right thing. But I don't think she did. I'm not a lawyer and me or my wife could make the same mistake.
How many times has anyone been caught in something similar (emergency vehicle or not) situation. You hesitated, should I go or not. Sometimes you go for it and after, you realize you shouldn't have. Or you slam on the brakes and realize, damn I really didn't need to do that, thank goodness no one was behind me. It happens. We're human.
I really doubt the wife will be "faulted" here even though she trigged it unnecessarily. Truck driver certainly could have done better to. But he isn't here to give his end of the story.
Glad she is ok, and the car protected her, and glad it's probably totaled.
It was bad timing. If the same truck driver was in a vehicle with collision avoidance it probably would have stopped.
I wonder what FSD would have done.
I appreciate the OP sharing the story and video. It might all help educate us.
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Close to a full stop before the intersection isn't stopped before the intersection. It doesn't matter how close she was, she couldn't get stopped and impeded the intersection, if you can't clear the intersection don't block it. How does she know the ambulance didn't need to make a u-turn? then she really would have been blocking them. The point is if you're not certain you can do something, don't try to do it.
The truck may not have been paying attention to all of their surrounding, but neither was the Tesla driver. At what point did the Tesla look around her surroundings to make sure she could safely come to a complete stop in a green lit intersection? If she had looked, she would have seen a Mac truck not slowing down and she should have let off the brake. I have been through so much "useless" driver training in my life and this incident is a perfect example of why I'm forced to go through it, I thought it was common sense to look at my surroundings in an emergency situation (which this actually wasn't) and the first thing you check when stopping for any reason is, "is the person behind me stopping." I literally laughed at this during my training this time around; I have to take a guided drive and comment quite literally everything I'm thinking and doing, including announcing every time I slow down that "I'm looking in my mirrors to ensure the vehicle behind me is also slowing down. I have stopped at the red light and the vehicle behind me is also stopping at the red light."
Techniques
Member
Everyone is making some valid points. At the end of the day, the truck driver is at fault for the rear collision, plus driving in the left lane. Most importantly, OP's wife is ok and they both can talk about this ordeal.
Having driven emergency vehicles, that is also correct from the drivers stand point. The easy way to put it is, lights and sirens don't mean "I can break the law", it's more like, "I'd like permission to break the law if you all will stop and let me" No ambulance driver is blasting through an intersection whether it's red or green, on the reds we're always stopped or in very clear intersections crawling up to, then through them.
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