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Tesla Model 3, another charger recommendations

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£360 labour is really taking the mickey, unless it's a complex job that's going to take around a day and a half to do.

I'm convinced that some installers view charge point installations as an easy way to double their normal labour rate, on the basis that the work is partially grant funded.

The work is no more complex than installing an outdoor 32 A commando outlet, in terms of both time and materials, so it might be an idea to get a price to install such an outlet first, then change it to a charge point installation, perhaps.
 
£360 labour is really taking the mickey, unless it's a complex job that's going to take around a day and a half to do.

I'm convinced that some installers view charge point installations as an easy way to double their normal labour rate, on the basis that the work is partially grant funded.

The work is no more complex than installing an outdoor 32 A commando outlet, in terms of both time and materials, so it might be an idea to get a price to install such an outlet first, then change it to a charge point installation, perhaps.

Yes, I won't be going with that one. Installer No 3/3 is coming to visit tomorrow (the only one willing to) so we'll see what he offers
 
I'm convinced that some installers view charge point installations as an easy way to double their normal labour rate, on the basis that the work is partially grant funded.

Everyone in the chain just pockets the free cash, either through hugely overpriced EVSE or inflated installation costs.

From the taxpayer point of view the scheme is very poor value.
 
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£360 labour is really taking the mickey, unless it's a complex job that's going to take around a day and a half to do.

I'm convinced that some installers view charge point installations as an easy way to double their normal labour rate, on the basis that the work is partially grant funded.

The work is no more complex than installing an outdoor 32 A commando outlet, in terms of both time and materials, so it might be an idea to get a price to install such an outlet first, then change it to a charge point installation, perhaps.

Hi Jeremy, you seem to know all about this, I am hoping to get a Model 3 soon, now I do not plan on staying at the house for too long so don't really want to go through the hassle of getting a dedicated charger fitted on the outside of the house, plus it may look a bit ugly and put buyers off if they don't have an EV, as they are all a little ugly. Now I would be parking directly in front of the garage door (or possibly inside the garage if I can clear enough junk out), looking at my consumer unit there is a dedicated Protek MCB-132/28, 32A 240/414V for the garage, and the garage does have lights and power sockets, would it therefore be easy enough to get a sparky to fit a commando in the garage and that I could then use to charge?

If so, what sort should I go for and what is a sensible price to pay for such a job?
 
Hi Jeremy, you seem to know all about this, I am hoping to get a Model 3 soon, now I do not plan on staying at the house for too long so don't really want to go through the hassle of getting a dedicated charger fitted on the outside of the house, plus it may look a bit ugly and put buyers off if they don't have an EV, as they are all a little ugly. Now I would be parking directly in front of the garage door (or possibly inside the garage if I can clear enough junk out), looking at my consumer unit there is a dedicated Protek MCB-132/28, 32A 240/414V for the garage, and the garage does have lights and power sockets, would it therefore be easy enough to get a sparky to fit a commando in the garage and that I could then use to charge?

If so, what sort should I go for and what is a sensible price to pay for such a job?

I think the chances are that you most probably won't be able to draw 32 A from the garage circuit, as there are already other outlets on that supply. Also, the supply to the commando should really be protected in much the same way as a charge point, so there might be a bit of additional work needed.

You might be able to fit a 16 A commando to the existing circuit, rather than a 32 A one. It should really still be protected in the same way as an EV charge point, but given that Tesla supply a 16 A commando adapter with the UMC that comes with the car it could be argued that this arrangement is OK.

You may find that charging at 16 A is OK for your daily pattern of use. An overnight (7 hour off peak) charge at 16 A would add roughly 90 miles of range.
 
I think the chances are that you most probably won't be able to draw 32 A from the garage circuit, as there are already other outlets on that supply. Also, the supply to the commando should really be protected in much the same way as a charge point, so there might be a bit of additional work needed.

You might be able to fit a 16 A commando to the existing circuit, rather than a 32 A one. It should really still be protected in the same way as an EV charge point, but given that Tesla supply a 16 A commando adapter with the UMC that comes with the car it could be argued that this arrangement is OK.

You may find that charging at 16 A is OK for your daily pattern of use. An overnight (7 hour off peak) charge at 16 A would add roughly 90 miles of range.
Thanks

So the sparky would replace the 32A with a 16A and then the commando would be on the other end in the garage?

Would that mean, no more power or lights as the commando would replace that ability?

could a mini consumer unit be fitted on the end of the 32A in the garage that then would serve everything, commando, lights, power sockets, or would the existing cable from main consumer unit need beefing up a bit?
 
Hiya

I recently moved house, and went with (a dumb) Rolec, which was installed for £400. It has worked every time and have used it to charge a Zoe, an i3, a Leaf and my M3 all with no issues. No frills, but solid.

Best
 
Thanks

So the sparky would replace the 32A with a 16A and then the commando would be on the other end in the garage?

Would that mean, no more power or lights as the commando would replace that ability?

could a mini consumer unit be fitted on the end of the 32A in the garage that then would serve everything, commando, lights, power sockets, or would the existing cable from main consumer unit need beefing up a bit?


The 32 A MCB you have supplying the garage circuit can be left as is, as it will still protect all the wiring in the garage OK (assuming that it was all correctly installed). Taking a spur from that, via an additional 16 A protection device (ideally a double pole Type A RCBO) and running that spur to a 16 A commando outlet should be OK. The easy option may be to just install a caravan hook up box, as these have a 16 A DP RCBO and a 16 A commando in the same housing. Something like this, perhaps: Rolec SU1 16 A 1 Way Static Caravan Hook Up Point (LSAA0010) | CEF (there are others around, this was just the first I stumbled on).
 
It’s come up in chat that the Tesla Wall Connector is not compliant with some recent regulation regarding RCD protection. Anyone any info?

Currently getting a wall connector installed to the house new consumer unit. Plus earth rod.

Much appreciated.
 
It’s come up in chat that the Tesla Wall Connector is not compliant with some recent regulation regarding RCD protection. Anyone any info?

Currently getting a wall connector installed to the house new consumer unit. Plus earth rod.

Much appreciated.

AFAIK, the TWC doesn't have DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so doesn't comply with the regs unless it is connected via additional protection, in accordance with Section 722 of BS7671:2018. It's not alone in this, several other charge points also don't include DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so also require that to be provided by the installation.

Not hard to do, there are a couple of options that seem to be accepted, although I have my doubts as to whether one or two of the options being used actually do comply with the regs as they are currently worded. Doesn't seem to stop installers using them, though.
 
AFAIK, the TWC doesn't have DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so doesn't comply with the regs unless it is connected via additional protection, in accordance with Section 722 of BS7671:2018. It's not alone in this, several other charge points also don't include DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so also require that to be provided by the installation.

Not hard to do, there are a couple of options that seem to be accepted, although I have my doubts as to whether one or two of the options being used actually do comply with the regs as they are currently worded. Doesn't seem to stop installers using them, though.

What are the options please? Or perhaps there is already a thread regarding this?

many thanks
 
What are the options please? Or perhaps there is already a thread regarding this?

many thanks

There's mention of the regs in a few threads here, this post seems to cover the basics: Thoughts on Commando + Ohme as Home Charging Option

This post from @arg corrects an error in another thread I made and describes protection devices: Home Charging Stations


Some installers seem to be getting away with using a protection device manufactured by matt-e (discussed a bit in this thread: Home Charging Stations ) but I'm not convinced that it actually complies with the requirements of Section 722 of the regs (the manufacturer claims it does, though). Worth following some of the other posts in that latter thread, as it may be helpful. In particular, I found a cheap (~£300) charge point that includes all the required protection, that might be a possible solution.
 
I have a Rolec that was recently installed and unfortunately the "5m" cable is just a few cms too short to allow me to plug the car in when it's nose-first in the driveway, forcing me to back into the driveway (not the easiest thing in the world) if I want to charge. The "smartness" of the Rolec has been useless from day one, it spends 99% of its time disconnected from the cloud, even though I have great mobile phone coverage at my house, and I only ever intend to use it as a dumb charger, anyway. The Rolec has a ground rod next to it, and there's a separate (from the one in the consumer unit) circuit breaker in a little mini box next to the consumer unit (I don't know why this second circuit breaker is required). A 10m replacement cable for the Rolec would cost me almost £250 installed (ludicrous, right?!), so I'm toying with the idea of just getting a Tesla Wall Connector with 7.5m cable instead.

Jeremy: to your knowledge, with what I've described above, would I still need that expensive £300 RCD if I swapped the Rolec for a TWC? That would make it prohibitively expensive. Thanks.
 
I have a Rolec that was recently installed and unfortunately the "5m" cable is just a few cms too short to allow me to plug the car in when it's nose-first in the driveway, forcing me to back into the driveway (not the easiest thing in the world) if I want to charge. The "smartness" of the Rolec has been useless from day one, it spends 99% of its time disconnected from the cloud, even though I have great mobile phone coverage at my house, and I only ever intend to use it as a dumb charger, anyway. The Rolec has a ground rod next to it, and there's a separate (from the one in the consumer unit) circuit breaker in a little mini box next to the consumer unit (I don't know why this second circuit breaker is required). A 10m replacement cable for the Rolec would cost me almost £250 installed (ludicrous, right?!), so I'm toying with the idea of just getting a Tesla Wall Connector with 7.5m cable instead.

Jeremy: to your knowledge, with what I've described above, would I still need that expensive £300 RCD if I swapped the Rolec for a TWC? That would make it prohibitively expensive. Thanks.

You could change the cable in the Rolec for a longer one for less than £250. Here are some options:

The expensive option, but does give you a "Tesla Button", on an 8m cable, is to swap the cable for this one: Charging pigtail with Tesla control button - evChargeking

A slightly cheaper option would be this 8m cable: Charge point Pigtail - evChargeking without the "Tesla Button"

A significantly cheaper option might be this 10m cable, again, without a "Tesla Button": Tethered Cable Euro Series Type 2 / Open End

Or finally this option, again without a "Tesla Button": Type 2 Tethered Cables

Changing the cable is pretty easy, and within the capability of a competent DIYer. Make sure the supply is isolated, remove the charge point cover, test the connections to make sure they really are dead, maybe take a reference photo of the way the cable is wired and secured, then just remove the old one and replace it like for like with the new one, making sure the screw terminals are done up tightly.

I'd be inclined to go for a cable with a Tesla button. I have one on my lead now and it makes life much simpler, as it will both open the charge port, if needed, and it will also stop a charge and unlatch the connector from the car.
 
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So not much different in price to a fully fitted presumably warranted cable then!

Yes, a DIY cable replacement, for a longer cable without the "Tesla button" option would be around £80 to £90 cheaper than getting the same cable installed, which seems fair enough, as it's about 15 to 20 minutes work to replace a cable and test the unit.

The more expensive DIY option costs around the same as the £250 replacement longer cable, but does have the big advantage of giving the charge point the "Tesla button", so the functionality would be the same as the Tesla wall charger. Now I'm used to having that button, I'd not want to do without it. I've even modded my 10m charge lead that I carry around in the car so that it has this button.
 
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You could change the cable in the Rolec for a longer one for less than £250. Here are some options:

The expensive option, but does give you a "Tesla Button", on an 8m cable, is to swap the cable for this one: Charging pigtail with Tesla control button - evChargeking

A slightly cheaper option would be this 8m cable: Charge point Pigtail - evChargeking without the "Tesla Button"

A significantly cheaper option might be this 10m cable, again, without a "Tesla Button": Tethered Cable Euro Series Type 2 / Open End

Or finally this option, again without a "Tesla Button": Type 2 Tethered Cables

Changing the cable is pretty easy, and within the capability of a competent DIYer. Make sure the supply is isolated, remove the charge point cover, test the connections to make sure they really are dead, maybe take a reference photo of the way the cable is wired and secured, then just remove the old one and replace it like for like with the new one, making sure the screw terminals are done up tightly.

I'd be inclined to go for a cable with a Tesla button. I have one on my lead now and it makes life much simpler, as it will both open the charge port, if needed, and it will also stop a charge and unlatch the connector from the car.
Thank you Jeremy, that's amazing. I prefer the evChargeKing solution with the button: same cost as the official cable, but will be 7m instead of 10m (the unnecessarily long replacement Rolec cable) and as you say, having the button is an amazing benefit.
 
Thank you Jeremy, that's amazing. I prefer the evChargeKing solution with the button: same cost as the official cable, but will be 7m instead of 10m (the unnecessarily long replacement Rolec cable) and as you say, having the button is an amazing benefit.

Sorry, I linked to the 3 phase version of this cable earlier, the one you want is the slightly cheaper single phase one: Unique Tesla charging cables - evChargeking

A 7m cable, with the Tesla button, is €229, plus delivery.
 
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