Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible

[gekcut]

Yeah, I got misled by the title too. I thought this was the first Model 3 that actually was "bricked".


To the OP, here's some context to what "bricked" means specifically for EVs (and Tesla specifically). The word was loaned from the software context you mentioned, but in an EV the meaning is that the HV battery is completely dead from being overdischarged (and can't be easily recoverable without extreme methods like disassembling the pack and doing manual trickle recharging module by module and try to salvage some).
Tesla Battery Failures Make ‘Bricking’ a Buzzword

In this article appears this statement

"Tesla’s corporate blog explained the fail-safe provisions of the new model this way: “A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.”

Was that actually implemented for the Model S and has it been implemented for the Model 3?

I ask because I am out of the country for months at a time. While I can leave the vehicle plugged in, if power is somehow lost I do not want to return to find I have to pay for a new battery.

 

[stopcrazypp]

In this article appears this statement

"Tesla’s corporate blog explained the fail-safe provisions of the new model this way: “A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.”

Was that actually implemented for the Model S and has it been implemented for the Model 3?

I ask because I am out of the country for months at a time. While I can leave the vehicle plugged in, if power is somehow lost I do not want to return to find I have to pay for a new battery.

No one has ever reported a bricked battery in the Model S as far as I know, so I'm pretty sure it's implemented. From previous analysis the larger packs in Model S/X lock out the bottom 4kWh and the smaller packs 2.5kWh (not sure if my memory is correct) for this purpose.

I haven't read anything on Model 3 yet on this, but I can't imagine why Tesla would not implement a similar thing.

 

[voip-ninja]

In this article appears this statement

"Tesla’s corporate blog explained the fail-safe provisions of the new model this way: “A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.”

Was that actually implemented for the Model S and has it been implemented for the Model 3?

I ask because I am out of the country for months at a time. While I can leave the vehicle plugged in, if power is somehow lost I do not want to return to find I have to pay for a new battery.

If you are out of the country for months at a time you will need to leave the car connected to some kind of power supply because at a loss of 1-2% charge per day, plus you being in the cooler climate of NY means that if you leave for "months" and don't leave the car charging you are very likely to come back to an inoperable car.... worst case, your car could be in a state where the battery is permanently degraded.

The current generation of Tesla cars go through what would be called 'heroic efforts' to try to prevent this which would include notifying Tesla that the car is disconnected from a charge source and the battery is getting low. Tesla have even done things like breaking into storage units, etc., to connect cars to juice and prevent them from having their batteries ruined.

Now, as to the OPs problem, it's highly likely that he is suffering from some failure in the 12V system. The 12V battery going flat will prevent the car from operating and will keep you out of the car unless you use something like a 12V car charger to pup the frunk and do the other things that can be done to get you back into the car.

It's possible/likely that future Tesla vehicles will try to eliminate the reliance on 90 year old 12V lead-acid battery technology in order to function.

 

[insaneoctane]

This thread would be much more pleasant and manageable if we removed all the posts battling the "brick" semantics....

 

[nvx1977]

This thread would be much more pleasant and manageable if we removed all the posts battling the "brick" semantics....

xkcd: Duty Calls

 

[gekcut]

A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.

If you are out of the country for months at a time you will need to leave the car connected to some kind of power supply because at a loss of 1-2% charge per day, plus you being in the cooler climate of NY means that if you leave for "months" and don't leave the car charging you are very likely to come back to an inoperable car.... worst case, your car could be in a state where the battery is permanently degraded.

The current generation of Tesla cars go through what would be called 'heroic efforts' to try to prevent this which would include notifying Tesla that the car is disconnected from a charge source and the battery is getting low. Tesla have even done things like breaking into storage units, etc., to connect cars to juice and prevent them from having their batteries ruined.

Sorry if this is poorly formatted but your statement seems to contradict the Tesla spokesperson. They said a Model S could sit for many months after the battery dropped to 5%. If you charge to 100% before leaving and lose 1%-2% per day it should take 1.5 months to reach 5% at which point Tesla says it can sit for many months. Conservatively I would take many to be at least 3 so it should be okay for 4.5 months and then could be revived for another month. So if you unexpectedly lost power for 5 months you should not permanently damage the main battery. I certainly plan to leave the vehicle plugged in but things can happen (as I found out on returning last year to an almost frozen house) and do not want a very large repair bill for a damaged battery. Is there a warning about this in the Model 3 User Manual?

 

[arnis]

If one is leaving an EV for long (months and months) , it is reasonable to charge it up to 50-60%, unplug,
switch it off. And then.... Disconnect negative terminal from 12V battery.
Upon return 12V battery should have juice (6-12 months) and HV pack should lose just a bit (5-15%).
It's not that safe to keep vehicle plugged in for half a year. I would even cut the power for almost everything in the house.
Lightning, voltage spikes, pulses, noise.. etc...

This actually applies to all vehicles, including ICE's. Vehicles in storage have their 12V batteries disconnected.

There are exactly 0 reasons to leave system in standby for months.

 

[Glade_EV]

with respect to 'the horse's mouth'
-From the Model 3's Owner's Manual (Battery Care section):

"Even when Model 3 is not being driven, its Battery discharges very slowly to power the onboard electronics. On average, the Battery discharges at a rate of <1% per week with energy saving mode ON and <3% per week with energy saving mode OFF (see Energy Saving Feature on page 105. Situations can arise in which you must leave Model 3 unplugged for an extended period of time (for example, at an airport when traveling). In these situations, keep the discharge rates in mind to ensure that you leave the Battery with a sufficient charge level.
Discharging the Battery to 0% may permanently damage the Battery. To protect against a complete discharge, Model 3 enters a low-power consumption mode when the charge level drops to 5%. In this mode, the Battery stops supporting the onboard electronics to slow the discharge rate to approximately 4% per month. Once this lowpower consumption mode is active, it is important to plug in Model 3 within two months to avoid Battery damage. Note: When the low-power consumption mode is active, the auxiliary 12V battery is no longer being charged and can completely discharge within 12 hours. In the unlikely event that this occurs, you may need to jump start or replace the 12V battery before you can charge. In this situation, contact Tesla."

 

[MP3Mike]

So the "low-power" mode, at ~4%/month, doesn't seem any better than the normal mode with Energy Saver On, at <1%/week. In fact it might be worse.

 

[arnis]

4% per months with disconnected load is overkill.
Might be true at maximum storage temperature.
But at normal room temperature, it should be 1-2%.
At that low state of charge, it might even be 0.5% per month.
Manual should state worst case scenario... so.. . yea.

 

[Reciprocity]

I'm going to be pissed if this thread does not make it to 30 pages of posts. Can anyone else define bricked again for the new comers. It's also nice to hear @MarkS22 was able to connect to his car with the app. I know how it feels to not be able to connect. My S was totally bricked at the airport. 0 precent after 6 days... Wtf. It still drove but only 29 mph. Made it to a chargepoint at a Walgreens 2 miles away.. I hate them btw but they have my arse. 2 hours to charge 7 miles... In freezing temps. Lame. Then made it to a super charger for the rest.

I don't get it because I had over 200 miles of range when I parked. It should not have run out in 6 days. It was cold but not that bad.

 

[Saghost]

I'm going to be pissed if this thread does not make it to 30 pages of posts. Can anyone else define bricked again for the new comers. It's also nice to hear @MarkS22 was able to connect to his car with the app. I know how it feels to not be able to connect. My S was totally bricked at the airport. 0 precent after 6 days... Wtf. It still drove but only 29 mph. Made it to a chargepoint at a Walgreens 2 miles away.. I hate them btw but they have my arse. 2 hours to charge 7 miles... In freezing temps. Lame. Then made it to a super charger for the rest.

I don't get it because I had over 200 miles of range when I parked. It should not have run out in 6 days. It was cold but not that bad.

What firmware were you on at the time? I think about the only way to lose that much that quickly is for the HVAC to stay on the whole time.

I've read a couple other threads suggesting the reason the new 2018 firmware got pulled was HVAC activation glitches (but I don't know that for a fact.)

 

[NewTMSMan]

I only read the first post, but I don't think using the work "bricked" is the right way to describe this issue.

 

[Cheburashka]

I only read the first post, but I don't think using the work "bricked" is the right way to describe this issue.

Please, tell us more!

P.S. Is the car fixed yet or still bricked?

 

[whatthe2]

I only read the first post, but I don't think using the work "bricked" is the right way to describe this issue.

If you read more of the first page or two, you will see that this (the bricked comment) was discussed and clarified.

 

[gekcut]

with respect to 'the horse's mouth'
-From the Model 3's Owner's Manual (Battery Care section):

"Even when Model 3 is not being driven, its Battery discharges very slowly to power the onboard electronics. On average, the Battery discharges at a rate of <1% per week with energy saving mode ON and <3% per week with energy saving mode OFF (see Energy Saving Feature on page 105. Situations can arise in which you must leave Model 3 unplugged for an extended period of time (for example, at an airport when traveling). In these situations, keep the discharge rates in mind to ensure that you leave the Battery with a sufficient charge level.
Discharging the Battery to 0% may permanently damage the Battery. To protect against a complete discharge, Model 3 enters a low-power consumption mode when the charge level drops to 5%. In this mode, the Battery stops supporting the onboard electronics to slow the discharge rate to approximately 4% per month. Once this lowpower consumption mode is active, it is important to plug in Model 3 within two months to avoid Battery damage. Note: When the low-power consumption mode is active, the auxiliary 12V battery is no longer being charged and can completely discharge within 12 hours. In the unlikely event that this occurs, you may need to jump start or replace the 12V battery before you can charge. In this situation, contact Tesla."

Thanks Glade_EV, if the manual is correct leaving the Model 3 with a 100% charge and the energy saving mode ON, would keep the battery safe for over two years. I realize temperature may play a role but I think 5 months would be safe.

 

[gekcut]

So the "low-power" mode, at ~4%/month, doesn't seem any better than the normal mode with Energy Saver On, at <1%/week. In fact it might be worse.

I agree that is odd.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Maybe a moderator can add a comment to the first post indicating the “bricked” term has been discussed to death, so anyone reading it for the first time will know (since it is on page 15 at this point, and most people will not read beyond the first few posts). I will report my post to catch a mod’s attention.

 

[TEG]

Maybe a moderator can add a comment to the first post indicating the “bricked” term has been discussed to death, so anyone reading it for the first time will know (since it is on page 15 at this point, and most people will not read beyond the first few posts). I will report my post to catch a mod’s attention.

OK, did that.

 

[MikeBur]

OK, did that.

Any way to update the original post with updates too please? I just skim-read 300 posts and learnt a lot more about the (mis)use of bricked than what’s happening. Guess it’s a slow news week...?

@MarkS22, thanks for the updates. We are same day recipients. I maybe missed the details of how to flatbed it from garage? Did ranger unlock frunk via eye hole cables, then connect jumpers to 12V battery in Frunk, then open trunk to release charge port cable? Were they able to open car doors and put in tow mode?

Btw, although in the manual, there is no low-power mode or always connected mode available in Model 3 yet, as of .52 and although I don’t believe this battery went flat (it was plugged in), there are some significant differences in behavior than s/x assuming constant connectivity / data polling today, eg Lack of “Always Connected” on Model 3 causing noticeable vampire loss