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Tesla Model 3 in Australia

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by Electric_Blue, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    "very inefficient" and "much more efficient" are probably stating it a bit strongly.
    From what I've read, both induction and switched reluctance motor types are over 90% efficient, like 91% and 94% efficient.
    The reason the reluctance motors are used in the M3 is more because they are cheaper than the slightly better efficiency. They are cheaper because they don't need magnets or windings in the rotor, just plain steel.
    The reason reluctance motors weren't used in the S and X is because they are very hard to get right (require very fast switching), and have a problem at max output called 'ripple torque'.
     
  2. Hovean

    Hovean Member

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    Anyone with particular M3 requirements should get in Teslas'/Elons' ear about it. I'm after a long range RWD and (ideally) a tow bar. The squeaky wheel gets the oil etc etc.
     
  3. Hovean

    Hovean Member

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    Anyone with particular M3 requirements should get in Teslas'/Elons' ear about it. I'm after a long range RWD and (ideally) a tow bar. The squeaky wheel gets the oil etc etc.
    I'm in Brisbane for a couple of weeks and dropped into the Tesla centre. Surprised and thrilled to see a (LHD) M3 on display. After recovering from the bubbling "Hi guys" from all the staff, a great morning was spent having a good look.
     
  4. bay74

    bay74 Member

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    Might have that backwards - though I might well be ignorant of the significance of your use of 'rotor' rather than (the whole) motor. It's my understanding that the induction motor in the S uses no rare earth magnets, but the Model 3 does. There was quite some discussion on this I think when it first became apparent that the 3 was using rare earth metals.
    https://electrek.co/2018/02/27/tesla-model-3-motor-designer-permanent-magnet-motor/
    PMAC vs induction motor for model 3
     
  5. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Induction motor has windings on both rotor and stator.
    Reluctance motor uses “solid state” rotor, basically something that can be pulled by the electromagnets in the stator, whether that’s slugs of iron/steel or permanent magnets.
    The efficient comes because no current flows within the rotor, whereas in an induction motor there is current flowing on the copper windings on the rotor, which makes heat and wastes energy.
    In both types there is current flowing in the windings of the stator.
     
  6. aegidius

    aegidius Member

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    Sort of. The rotor windings in an IM are just copper bars with closed ends (like shorted turns) embedded in steel laminations. The stator has the energised windings. There are no permanent magnets in the rotor, the rotor field is made by (quite large!) currents in the shorted turns, induced transformer-fashion from the stator's rotating field (hence "induction")

    PM motors can be very efficient because the rotor field doesn't waste any power to make, as you say. Switched-reluctance motors are a bit different from PM brushless or PMAC though - they are a bit more like stepper motors. See Charged EVs | A closer look at switched reluctance motors and elsewhere.
     
  7. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

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    it doesnt matter. I call 10% reduced range from dual motors as very inefficient in comparison. no matter the reason. Fact is that the permanent magnet motor is much more efficient than the induction motors to the point where you cannot get much savings from torque sleep and gearing.
     
  8. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

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    cant remember. bjorn did some tests, if i remember correctly on long range driving it was something like 10-15% more range
     
  9. Jays200

    Jays200 Member

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    I've been squeaking so long my axle is wearing thin ;)
     
  10. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    So 94% efficiency is "much more efficient", and 91% efficiency is "very inefficient".
    It seems like too wide a swing for such a small difference.
    What adjectives would you whip out to describe an ICE at 25% efficiency? (you are only allowed to use "really" a maximum of 3 times).
     
  11. Blue heaven

    Blue heaven Fair Dinkum Tesla

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    Just to be clear there are so many factors that determine the efficiency and range of Tesla cars but before I get on to that;
    The original Performance dual motors were showing very poor range compared to original rear drive only cars, to most people it's clear that drivers who purchased the P's drove the hard early on.
    Without doubt when comparing two near identical model S cars with the only difference being rear drive/all wheel drive the range and efficiency would be extremly close, in fact some may argue the the dual motor S is slightly better.
    The model 3 is a different beast, the rear drive only could get more distance from its battery but only a fraction.

    Anyway, owners with cars that can easily travel 350kms on a charge would only be concerned when driving in areas away from an established charging infrastructure, if someone buying a rear drive only model 3 because it "may" get an extra 15-20kms from a charge on a long country trip should seriously consider all the other simple ways to improve range-
    Never neglect the tyres and the pressure their kept at.
    Drop 5kmh, so what that you get to the destination 10 minutes late, try leaving 10 minutes earlier,
    On cold mornings drive off as soon as the car completes charging.
    If possible pre-heat or pre-cool the interior.
    In hot country areas try and park the car in the shade when charging ( but not directly under a tree or the birds and honkey nuts will mess up your paintwork).
     
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  12. aegidius

    aegidius Member

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    What's a honkey nut?
     
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  13. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    A Honkey Nut is a WA term for a Gum Nut.
     
  14. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Agony to step on.
    I raised my kids in a house with a massive gum tree in the back yard.
    Among the first ten words my children spoke was "gum num!" as they stepped on one :)
     
  15. paulp

    paulp Active Member

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    So does a honkey nut come from a honkey tree or a gum tree?
     
  16. Jays200

    Jays200 Member

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    Urban Dictionary: honkey nut "specifically the gumnuts of the marri tree" Marri | Forest Products Commission

    Corymbia calophylla Only grows in the South-West.

    "The nuts are large and carry rather large seeds that provide an important food source for some species of parrots including cockatoos. They are commonly called "Honkey nuts" in Western Australia - allegedly a corruption of hockey nuts because of their use in a game."
     
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  17. houdini

    houdini Member

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    Saw a bunch of new posts and came here for model 3 news and found.....nut discussion.
     
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  18. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    We are trying to pass the time until there's some actual news :)
     
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  19. aegidius

    aegidius Member

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    When we actually hear something about RHD M3 we won't know what hit us...
     
  20. eclectricdave

    eclectricdave Member

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    My two bobs worth:
    I used the calculator to see whether a 2wd or 4wd was better for range. Cant remember the figures now but it was convincing. Tesla said you cant tell if one or both motors were running. I assume the smaller front motor is the normal motor when you are at cutoff.
    On long trips I can easily get $15 kWhrs per 100k by coasting & drafting. The latter takes nerves of steel. I normally drive no AirCon & run on "chill". . I think a range of 500ks is possible with my 85kWhr version & will be put to test when driving to Cairns in a few months time using an inland route with few published charging spots.
    Induction motors usually have aluminium bars not copper in the rotors are we certain of copper? The latter would make for a heavier design.
    I spent some years in Perth in my primary school days (Nedlands) and do not remember "honkey nuts"
     

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