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Tesla Model 3 P+ vs BMW M3?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by wallet.dat, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Ok, so it's been established that the Model III's target is the BMW 3 series. But that begs the interesting scenario of the extreme upper end of each respective model: The P+ and "M" variants of each line. If the P+ is to match or exceed the performance of the M3/M4 (which can hit an 11 second 1/4 mile), it will have to exceed the performance of the Model S as well. Is this even a plausible scenario? If this does proves to be the case, where can I camp out in line to be the first one to buy one???
     
  2. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

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    I'd like to see the 3 beat an M3 around a track.
    Now that's an engineering challenge, straight line battle is meh
     
  3. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    They should really make a track performance Model 3 P++. It would have extra cooling, less comfort, lighter materials, performance suspension and 2-motor AWD. It would beat an M3 around a track, but cost $150k (???)
     
  4. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    So you think that Model 3 P++ will be made of aluminium?
     
  5. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    No, the regular one. For the ++ I was thinking a lot of carbon fibre.
     
  6. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    Cool! :cool:
     
  7. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Let the aftermarket provide the accessories to make the Model 3 "track ready". As a TSLA shareholder I don't want the company to devote any resources to that project. Tesla is still a young, small company and needs to focus on making affordable mass market cars. Making "P" and "P+" versions of the 3 is fine, just as they did with the S, but don't go beyond that. The market for a "track ready" EV is tiny.
     
  8. Model 3

    Model 3 Active Member

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    I disagree. Model S P+ was in my opinion only made ​​because they did not do a good enough job when they made ​​"P". On the new models, I expect that the "P" version will nr good enough in itself. If they make a "P+" version of the Model ☰ so it should just be a "track ready" version. Good performance on the track is also a good advertisement for the car, and well worth creating.

    But seriously, a "track ready" Model ☰ P++ as described above with carbon fiber etc. will be called "Roadster 3.0" :wink:
     
  9. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    Let's hope the seats match the performance in the Model 3 P+ - they certainly don't in the Model S.
     
  10. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Seems like the goal of creating a low cost mass market Tesla 3 is at odds with the concept of spending engineering time on a track version. I'm sure they'll have a P equivalent, but I have to question how much value a P++ adds to Elon's goal of increasing mass market EV adoption.
     
  11. TES-E

    TES-E Member

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    I agree with ecarfan and others who correctly point out that the purpose of the Model 3 it to get a reasonable electric car in the hands of the general public, with reasonable range and at a reasonable price. We are talking folks who are driving Camrys, Accords, Ford's, Chevys, etc. Their idea of performance is getting up to freeway speeds without getting run over, getting enough groceries into the car along with the kids, and most importantly, the RANGE to get to Grandma's house and back with the whole family. Talk of performance versions is interesting, but keep in mind that this is not priority one. Range will be King here.
     
  12. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Fuddy Duddies are missing the point.

    M3's create buzz and gets auto journalist on board promoting the brand.

    There really is not a lot of marginal engineering time needed. Much cheaper than a traditional marketing campaign.

    Performance versions is what engineers day dream about in their spare time.

    It is fun time spent away from creating transportation devices for the masses.

    There are base $32k 3 Series and $90k fully loaded M3s.


    Tesla should become an increasingly full line line premium manufacture like BMW and MB.

    Why sell someone a $50k M III when he is willing to pay $90k for a M III P+?

    As a Tesla investor I want Tesla to realize those marginal profits and invest in future vehicles that even go further down market than a base M III.

    Maybe even creating a separate brand like BMW's Mini and MB's Smart.
     
  13. StephenM

    StephenM Active Member

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    BMW makes a lot of money on their M line of vehicles. There's no way that Tesla will release a track version of the Model III in the inaugural run. Even BMW takes a year to bring their M versions to market on a new chassis. I think Tesla will take at least 2 years (if they do it at all) to bring something that could challenge an M3 on the track. I would love to see it (and trade down from my Model S) but I think the best we can hope for will be a P version.
     
  14. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Tesla doesn't seem to lack for buzz and folks writing articles about them.
    As a Tesla investor, I want Tesla to live up to their vision statement about EV adoption that Elon laid out many years ago. If a M3++ helps that, so be it. I don't give a crap if the M3++ improves margin by .9%, but I definitely care if working on the M3++ slows down work towards more mass market cars.
     
  15. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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    Agree. Like the S I expect two battery packages and a host of optional items that will bring the average price close to $50k but a M3++ isn't needed for at least a year or two after the initial model is available.
     
  16. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Yeah, it kinda does. Open up any automotive magazine/site, and there will be an article about some model of BMW in one form or another. But when it comes to Tesla...crickets.
     
  17. TES-E

    TES-E Member

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    Introduce a new model or a significant change and see what happens...
     
  18. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

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    It will be more of a platform/skateboard advancements that will make the tesla a better car.
    Weight, even weight distribution, steering and suspension.
    A lot of it relies on either a smaller and/or lighter battery pack.
    Tesla already have the power and range box ticked
     
  19. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    I strongly disagree !! TM seems to come out with the top first and work its way down. I would like to see a Model III coupe P+ as the first car. Actually I want a convertible first but that certainly is not going to happen. I am hoping that the reveal will have a sedan and a coupe.
     
  20. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I agree w/ RobStark. Tesla has repeatedly stated that the target of the Model 3 is the BMW 3-series. This is not the Camry crowd. Those are the most conservative late adopters around; perhaps challenged only by pickup drivers - those people will not buy EV's for many more years unless gas prices tip their hands. Tesla has set a high bar as the BMW 3-series has repeatedly been named one of the best handling cars ever. Tesla's statement also implies a range of models from $35k up to $100k like the BMW 3-series. Tesla has an advantage as the chassis will need very minor changes. Elon only builds cars that Elon wants to drive. Let's remember that the P85 was available immediately. The "+" only came about because Elon wanted better suspension. Model X will be AWD and Model S will have an AWD option once Model X production is rolling. So I have every reason to expect that a Performance Model 3 will be AWD. I also expect it to tip the scales around 3,800lbs. So think about a car w/ twice the power of Model S that weighs 800lbs less? The acceleration will be insane and will create tons of buzz. If they can manage the heat in the PEM and motor it will trash an M3/M4 around a track. I will be selling my Roadster for one.
     

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