"Tesla Model 3 Produces More CO2 than a Diesel Car" - Please debunk

[SammichLover]

I think the jury is out whether an EV run on NG is an environmental bargain due to methane pollution at the extraction site.

Nah, that isn’t nearly as bad as first feared and by some initial measurements that were later found to be methodologically biased.

Generally the more modern the field the far less it leaks (mostly due to design, not age). Also larger producers have much less leaking, as usual it is the smaller companies running shoddy methods. The relatively recent Fed NG production emission regs drag the shoddy up to more modern levels and the current WH admin’s ineptitude is so far managing to thankfully negate its malevolence in trying to kill those regulations.

It isn’t nothing but a Prius on gasoline still can’t touch even 100% NG Model 3.

PS Coal extraction generally releases more methane per kWh of power vs modern NG. The older fields it as about equal. That’s how small a % the leaks are.

 

[pipestem]

When you find the 100% NG utility. Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that clean beautiful coal should have no place in the future. At least driving an EV you are no worse off and much better in many places and can benefit from future power grids. An F150 is never ever getting better. The EV also does not emit noxious gasses in urban areas where 35k premature deaths occur due to air pollution; and does not require expensive underground tanks and transportation that often leaks, and even reduces noise pollution. It’s just a better program.

oh and the car kicks ass.

 

[SammichLover]

When you find the 100% NG utility.

It isn’t the whole of a given grid, it rather is a “what if the grid usage demand this BEV creates causes market pressure that leads to extra electricity production that is only fulfilled by NG”. That’s not an unreasonable evaluation to consider, even it is very unlikely to work out like that in practice due to wind already cheaper per MWh of production. It helps keep in mind we do want to continue to press the renewable % of total production higher.

NG is better than coal, and beats ICE, but until there is closed loop mining-to-plant NG generation using pure oxygen that directly injects CO2 back into the NG formation it still has meaningful greenhouse impact & also has a health impact of unknown magnitude (largely unresearched) from the sub-micron particulates (“ultrafines”) created in the exhaust from incomplete combustion.

The mining of NG is also not zero impact, although how bad that is varies greatly by specifics of local geography & geology.

 

[mswlogo]

From a reputable website run I think by the US DOE for New York:
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Emissions from Hybrid and Plug-In Electric Vehicles

View attachment 465162

That’s a nice chart.

But keep in mind that is just for running the vehicle. What are the emissions to produce an EV vs ICE. And how long will an EV vs ICE be in service? And what other environmentally harmful side effects in the production of each.

Now perhaps harm from running a vehicle dwarfs its production. I don’t really know.

 

[SammichLover]

That’s a nice chart.

But keep in mind that is just for running the vehicle. What are the emissions to produce an EV vs ICE. And how long will an EV vs ICE be in service? And what other environmentally harmful side effects in the production of each.

Now perhaps harm from running a vehicle dwarfs its production. I don’t really know.

I believe that’s already been addressed earlier in thread, I’m on my phone so won’t hunt it down. Instead I’ll give the top line; Currently a Model S manufacturing is about an extra 12% or so footprint over a comparable ICE replacement, and indeed most of the footprint over lifetime is in operation vs creation.

Model 3, with improved tech & smaller battery, is going to be even better % and because operation is such high portion you can replace a 30mpg used car (meaning throw it on scrap heap, aka compare to buying a used vehicle counting 0 for creation cost) and by about 60,000 - 70,000 miles break even on the footprint.

That doesn’t even consider potential for battery repurposing at end of vehicle life or recycling.