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Tesla model 3 slides on sloppy roads in parked position in London snow?

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From personal experience, cars do not just slide when parked without good reason. I live in an area where many driveways are on slopes (some very very very steep). You just never hear of cars sliding down their driveways no matter what the weather conditions are. Whilst we have a very sloped driveway, we thankfully have a flat area where we park, but in situations where getting back on to our drive has been incredibly difficult due to ice, our neighbours cars in similar situations have stayed firmly put.

If it was as common place as some people make out, you would hear about it far more often than you do. I'm not saying that its unheard of and that cars will never slide on slopes in certain conditions, as has been said, its physics, but physics also play a part in most cars staying firmly in place for the past 60+ years. Its not unsurprising that people expecting this to remain the case when they change their cars. Something unusual is going on an I put my money on the summer spec tyres and their contact patch that Tesla, and some other manufacturers fit as standard to their vehicles.
I agree.
Here’s a point to ponder. I repainted my garage floor in the summer with good quality paint. I hadn’t needed to redo it for 20 years.
Where the Tesla wheels stand, in all four places, all 3 coats of paint has gone. Never happened before. I can only think that moisture from the tyre tread works it’s way to floor slowly and manages to strip the paint somehow. If that’s the case, the same action may well give rise to water gathering under the tyre, sufficient to freeze and cause slippage.
 
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I will offer one possible theory as to why this situation might be slightly worse with EVs:
1. They are heavier than the equivalent sized ICE cars
2. Have less weight over the front axle, because no engine
3. Tend to have less friction/drag in the drivetrain because no clutch/transmission/big diff. etc.
4. Run with higher tyre pressures in the name of efficiency

So, with the parking brake applied to only the rear wheels, if they suddenly lose grip on ice or compacted snow there is less grip/friction at the front to prevent the car running away.

This is not intended to be an excuse for anyone, it's just a theory. Blaming this on Tesla is just silly.
Also, winter or even all season tyres would probably have prevented this from happening. But according to a lot of UK drivers, they are only needed in Scandinavia.

Why can't people take responsibility for their actions these days?
 
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Can't comment on the Tesla, doesn't arrive until the 6th March.

However, over 11-12 years ago I had a Vauxhall which I parked on a slope (around 10-15 degrees) in snowy conditions, as I had done many times before. The whole road was on a hill and this parking area was at the top, to the side, with cars parking at 45 degrees to each other in a line.

The next morning I came outside to find my car was a good 400 yards down the road, having rolled down the hill and up a steep mound of snow with its boot in the air. The pile of snow was from a neighbour clearing their driveway. Fortunately, no one was hurt, the car was undamaged and the neighbour's wall underneath was fine. I assumed the handbrake had failed but the handbrake was on. My only conclusion was that melting snow had caused a lot of water to run under the tyres (i was at the bottom of a long row of cars), or i'd parked on ice which began to melt under the tyres.

Either way a shocking experience.
knowing what Vauxhalls were like 12 years ago it already sounded like a bad ordeal before you even go to the bit with the snow :)
 
I will offer one possible theory as to why this situation might be slightly worse with EVs:
1. They are heavier than the equivalent sized ICE cars
2. Have less weight over the front axle, because no engine
3. Tend to have less friction/drag in the drivetrain because no clutch/transmission/big diff. etc.
4. Run with higher tyre pressures in the name of efficiency

So, with the parking brake applied to only the rear wheels, if they suddenly lose grip on ice or compacted snow there is less grip/friction at the front to prevent the car running away.

Given that the front wheels of most cars don't have any parking brakes, then I'm not sure about the significance of grip from the front tyres - they will tend to freewheel like those on any other car with a parking brake that only operates on the rear wheels, so contribute pretty much nothing when it comes to preventing a parked car from moving, I think.

When it comes to weight distribution, then the Model 3 puts more weight over the rear wheels than most cars, thanks to the weight of the rear drive unit, plus the weight of the battery pack being in the middle of the car. Even the AWD Model 3s have 52% of the weight on the rear wheels, despite the added weight of the front drive unit, and I believe the SR+ has even more of a rear axle weight bias.
 
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I wonder if winter tyres will makes any difference to sliding when parked. The car / tyre will simply slide when the grip/friction goes at the point of contact. The grove design with winter tyres which helps disperse snow does not get to act because the wheel is not turning. FWD cars are probably better as all the wheels would not turn when it is parked as compared to a free wheeling front wheels for RWD cars.

The best way to prevent such movement is to lay a batten across the drive which is jam against something solid. Obviously that is not possible for cars parked on the road. Not sure what is best in that case.
 
Given that the front wheels of most cars don't have any parking brakes, then I'm not sure about the significance of grip from the front tyres - they will tend to freewheel like those on any other car with a parking brake that only operates on the rear wheels, so contribute pretty much nothing when it comes to preventing a parked car from moving, I think.

When it comes to weight distribution, then the Model 3 puts more weight over the rear wheels than most cars, thanks to the weight of the rear drive unit, plus the weight of the battery pack being in the middle of the car. Even the AWD Model 3s have 52% of the weight on the rear wheels, despite the added weight of the front drive unit, and I believe the SR+ has even more of a rear axle weight bias.
The significance is that there's less weight on the front wheels and less friction, so they will turn more easily. That all adds up to making it easier for them to start rotating if the rear has lost grip. So what I'm saying is the less weight over the front wheels the worse this situation is likely to be, regardless of how much weight is over the rear wheels.
 
knowing what Vauxhalls were like 12 years ago it already sounded like a bad ordeal before you even go to the bit with the snow :)

Funny you should say that. It did many hundreds of motorway miles a week (around 600) for around 9 months from new (company lease car) and around the 10 month mark, 6am on the M6 south....bang. Water pump had gone, car overheated, dead.
 
Everyone is saying the Model 3 is heavy yet it weighs less than a comparable BMW 3 series. Everyone assumes it's heavier than a comparable ICE but it's just not true. I'm wondering if he perhaps had a M3P with its summer tires that turn into a hard slippery brick under 50 degrees. Even if not, it's been pointed out other cars have this issue as well. Certainly not a design issue...call it a physics issue.
 
Funny you should say that. It did many hundreds of motorway miles a week (around 600) for around 9 months from new (company lease car) and around the 10 month mark, 6am on the M6 south....bang. Water pump had gone, car overheated, dead.

eee, when I were a lad engines didn't die just because of a water pump failure! (Just as well given how common that was.) Cast iron ... block and head ... that's the answer... and loads of water in the passages so you afford to can lose a bit! Cars overheating was normal ... pour some more water in there and carry on. Unfortunately it did make the engines somewhat inefficient, slow and heavy of course! We have to pay the price for the spectacular performance of modern engines ... we've got a Ford with an Ecoboost unit ... great little engine but they are known to die if you dare let the water out ... I suspect it's similar with all its competitors too.
 
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The significance is that there's less weight on the front wheels and less friction, so they will turn more easily. That all adds up to making it easier for them to start rotating if the rear has lost grip. So what I'm saying is the less weight over the front wheels the worse this situation is likely to be, regardless of how much weight is over the rear wheels.

I'm struggling with the logic of this, TBH.

There are no parking brakes on the front wheels of most cars (the only exception I know of were some older Citroen's that had inboard brakes at the front). Therefore the front wheels will turn pretty much as easily on any car - bearing resistance change with load is so tiny as to be almost unmeasurable.

The biggest factors affecting rolling resistance are the temperature, tyre compound and tread pattern (summer tyres have a fair bit lower rolling resistance that winter tyres). Tyre pressure has an effect, by reducing the area of the contact patch, which in turn reduces the angular deflection of the tyre tread and sidewall as it rotates, but in the case of the Tesla that's compensated for by the increased mass The reason that the tyre pressures are higher on Teslas is to give the same contact patch area despite the higher mass, so the tyre rolling resistance remains pretty much the same as any other car with a similar handling versus efficiency tyre section/load/pressure compromise (which is pretty much every car made in the past 20 years or so).

When parked, the rear wheels will be locked by the parking brake and the front wheels will be as free to rotate as those on any other car. Those on the AWD cars will have a slightly increased front wheel drag because of the front transmission, but for the single motor models the front wheel drag will be the same as for any other rear wheel drive car, and that will be pretty negligible on a surface with a low enough friction coefficient as to allow the locked rear wheels to start sliding.

The only forces acting to stop any parked car from sliding/rolling away will be effectiveness of the parking brakes (and it seems that in the cases quoted they were locking up the rear wheels) and the resistance to sliding resulting from the coefficient of friction between the road surface and the rear tyre contact patches. The front wheels aren't going to contribute any worthwhile resistance, because they are as free to rotate as on any other car, because the contact patch area, determined by the wheel loading and tyre pressure, will be near enough the same.

Looking at other cars, then quite a few have a much lower front wheel loading that even the Model 3 SR+ (which has the lowest front wheel loading of any Tesla, I believe). Perhaps the most extreme example would be rear engined Porsche models, where only around 40% of the weight is over the front wheels, compared with 48% over the front wheels for the Model 3 AWD versions. At the other extreme might be some of the older, front engine, rear wheel drive, cars, that had maybe 55% to 60% of the weight over the front wheels. All seem able to slide down slippery slopes with the rear wheels locked, but if I had to guess I'd say that those most resistant to this would be the models with the highest rearward weight bias. Many years ago I had a beach buggy, built from a 1950's vintage VW Beetle. With the engine hanging out behind the rear wheels, that had a massive rearward weight bias, so very low front wheel loading. It was fantastic on snow, or any slippery ground, because the high rear wheel loading gave the rear wheels loads of grip. I never tested it, but I suspect that high rear wheel grip on slippery surfaces would also have given it a lot of resistance to sliding when parked.
 
A 320's kerb weight is listed as 1510Kg and even a RWD Model 3 is over 1700Kg with the M3P at 1800+.
2021 M3 is 1745kg
2021 S4 is 1748kg
2021 TM3P is 1834kg

Close enough in my book, especially with the lower COG. There’s just not as much of a difference as people assume. Now, other models may vary and a gas car can certainly weigh less (like the 320 you mention)

https://www.autopadre.com/vehicle-weight/bmw-m3
https://www.autopadre.com/vehicle-weight/bmw-m3
https://www.autopadre.com/vehicle-weight/tesla-motors-model-3