Tesla Model 3 spoler efficiency question

[PDB2655]

These type of test only work under wind tunnel conditions were everything is controlled it very hard to do on your own. If you like the conditions you did then go for it. I am not saying they don't work because we all know wind conditions means a lot under certain criteria such as Nascar were there pushing to everything inch of speed out of the car.

 

[bxr140]

But given that this UP spoiler looks basically identical to the OEM version...

UP Aero spoiler, definitely not like OEM:

These type of test only work under wind tunnel conditions were everything is controlled it very hard to do on your own.

It is very plausible to create a real-world test environment that can provide accurate enough data to easily confirm directionality of the improvement [given the magnitude of the claim at 6% or whatever], and likely enough accuracy to provide integer-level results for efficiency improvement. Like, a day out on open roads with some diligent note-taking would do the job, even better with amazon quality anemometer and thermometers.

 

[Let's Drive]

Skepticism is the right of every consumer, so let's squash the notion that questioning marketing claims is done out of malice. It's also a pretty healthy exercise in itself, and behooves everyone to have to churn their cogs every once in a while.

The "right of every consumer" isn't in question-- I'm literally supporting this idea by testing, which means I'm also skeptical, but pursuing my questions through a different avenue. I'm specifically saying the air around these discussions isn't very productive, because it's rarely supported by data, while it's easy to dump skepticism everywhere and walk away. My limited testing shows a decrease, but it's slight enough to be negligible. If more people chime in, we can have a better discussion, beyond speculation.

We should be allowed to scrutinize your opinion without making it vengeful or personal: you think Tesla didn't make the "efficient" spoiler on grounds of aesthetic polarization. But given that this UP spoiler looks basically identical to the OEM version, then that rationale doesnt make sense. It is nowhere as radical as the Insight full fender cover.

What is this "allowed" and "rights" stuff about? You're not under persecution and have multiple posts in the thread, stop being so dramatic. I agreed with another person's opinion (bxr140), then offered mine in tandem. If you want a specific test format to satisfy your skepticism, why not ask...or even do a mock-up spoiler to test some theory? Recommend some better testing parameters if you have them, and contribute something qualitative that will help to prove or disprove claims, with data-driven results. If you'd like, I can take measurements and send you what you need to get started.

As to my personal observation on aesthetics, the spoiler is both wider (nearly the entire trunk), extends off the rear lid by quite a bit more than the factory spoiler, tapers differently to the cars lines, and has more area. After holding both in-person, and seeing how they mount up at different points (factory is more recessed), I don't consider them identical, but to each their own. Based on preliminary reactions I've had to it, it's definitely more polarizing than the minimal lines of the factory performance spoiler (which is in-line with most factory equipment people see). My overall idea was that aerodynamic considerations usually don't serve form, as well as they do function, in many people's eyes. As to if this influenced Tesla? Who knows... I qualified my statement as personal opinion for that very reason.

How many significant digits for the energy display? 7001W and 7999W over 29.3 miles makes a pretty big difference. A single MPH of tailwind makes a bigger difference than 236 --> 233Wh per mile consumption you showed.

I'm in agreement, you control for what you can, none of this is especially scientific. My conclusion was that over the course of the runs I did, it was consistently 2-3Wh/mi lower at highway speeds, real-world. I also stated that I wouldn't advise someone to purchase the spoiler, given these numbers, and took it further to say, I wouldn't advise it if they were twice as low... However, I'm one person and more testing is better and IMO necessary. A few others have posted better numbers and that could lead to a discussion about what they are doing differently and/or how they are testing. I'd also like to see if anyone is posting worse numbers (which I have yet to see).

If you're happy, you're happy. But any claim that gets put in the public domain is fair game for the public.

Just to be clear, this isn't an attempt to justify a purchase and I'm not advocating for anything, other than more real-world information. I bought the spoiler out of curiosity and a desire for real-world results, since UP wasn't offering them, despite rather notable development (and racing) in other areas. I like it about as much as I like the factory spoiler, but it's actually easier to mount (and re-mount), so if it doesn't show more of an effect over time (or cumulatively), I can also get rid of it. The ultimate goal is to satisfy that curiosity, in line with some other things I intend to investigate (ride height and determining the effect of wheel width on the air curtain). There isn't much to mod on these cars, but aero is rather unique and interesting.

 

[Gasaraki]

Can’t really call bullshit when people are actually backing up their data with their data soooooo....

Let me know when you want more screenshots. If I can beat this number daily...it’s not bullshit. Also my mods occurred during half of this lifespan of the car and the mods are especially worse ie wheels/tires.

like I said...don’t buy if you don’t believe. Let other people make their choice but you cant call bullshit if you don’t own

View attachment 605580

How does that picture prove that a stupid lip spoiler gives even 1% decrease in drag or efficiency increase? In my daily drive to work of about 60 miles and at the same speed, my wh/m can fluctuate between 250 all the way up to 370 depending on the way the wind is blowing.

Buy a spoiler for looks, don't buy one because some company claims that it can give you 5-10% more range.

If a spoiler really gave you even 5% more efficiency, Tesla would be all over that shiat like white on rice and putting the spoiler on every car. They give you freakin hub caps to give you ~5% increased efficiency. If they can claim a higher EPA mileage, you bet your @ss that they will do it. They will do everything to pump that number up.

 

[holmgang]

The "right of every consumer" isn't in question-- I'm literally supporting this idea by testing, which means I'm also skeptical, but pursuing my questions through a different avenue. I'm specifically saying the air around these discussions isn't very productive, because it's rarely supported by data, while it's easy to dump skepticism everywhere and walk away. My limited testing shows a decrease, but it's slight enough to be negligible. If more people chime in, we can have a better discussion, beyond speculation.


What is this "allowed" and "rights" stuff about? You're not under persecution and have multiple posts in the thread, stop being so dramatic. I agreed with another person's opinion (bxr140), then offered mine in tandem. If you want a specific test format to satisfy your skepticism, why not ask...or even do a mock-up spoiler to test some theory? Recommend some better testing parameters if you have them, and contribute something qualitative that will help to prove or disprove claims, with data-driven results. If you'd like, I can take measurements and send you what you need to get started.

As to my personal observation on aesthetics, the spoiler is both wider (nearly the entire trunk), extends off the rear lid by quite a bit more than the factory spoiler, tapers differently to the cars lines, and has more area. After holding both in-person, and seeing how they mount up at different points (factory is more recessed), I don't consider them identical, but to each their own. Based on preliminary reactions I've had to it, it's definitely more polarizing than the minimal lines of the factory performance spoiler (which is in-line with most factory equipment people see). My overall idea was that aerodynamic considerations usually don't serve form, as well as they do function, in many people's eyes. As to if this influenced Tesla? Who knows... I qualified my statement as personal opinion for that very reason.


I'm in agreement, you control for what you can, none of this is especially scientific. My conclusion was that over the course of the runs I did, it was consistently 2-3Wh/mi lower at highway speeds, real-world. I also stated that I wouldn't advise someone to purchase the spoiler, given these numbers, and took it further to say, I wouldn't advise it if they were twice as low... However, I'm one person and more testing is better and IMO necessary. A few others have posted better numbers and that could lead to a discussion about what they are doing differently and/or how they are testing. I'd also like to see if anyone is posting worse numbers (which I have yet to see).


Just to be clear, this isn't an attempt to justify a purchase and I'm not advocating for anything, other than more real-world information. I bought the spoiler out of curiosity and a desire for real-world results, since UP wasn't offering them, despite rather notable development (and racing) in other areas. I like it about as much as I like the factory spoiler, but it's actually easier to mount (and re-mount), so if it doesn't show more of an effect over time (or cumulatively), I can also get rid of it. The ultimate goal is to satisfy that curiosity, in line with some other things I intend to investigate (ride height and determining the effect of wheel width on the air curtain). There isn't much to mod on these cars, but aero is rather unique and interesting.

Im not crying victing here, there, or ever. We're on a discussion board and if people contribute their 2cents, I'm happy to add mine. I've got plenty of them, and electrons are cheap. (Drama costs extra)

You volunteer your data, and suggest I add mine. Im not particularly enticed to contribute this sort of labor for free. (Maybe find some unemployed engineers or keen starving students?). Yes, it is a convenient position to be in, but I'm also not in the business of selling you anything.

This last line is sufficiently expressive

...a desire for real-world results, since UP wasn't offering them

Maybe the burden of proof starts there?

 

[Let's Drive]

Maybe the burden of proof starts there?

I certainly think it does. However, UP has provided what they felt is necessary. I don't agree with the approach for a few reasons, but it is what it is.

If I could have my way, I'd have asked for more extensive test results, alongside independent/real-world testing-- but it's been months, and we can't force the former, so it's on to the latter. The rest is just an endless sea of speculation and what Tesla would and wouldn't have done (heat pumps, anyone?).

I get that you're not paid to do this- neither am I. But I do like forums as a community resource and when it's a topic I'm interested in, it makes sense to contribute (few things worse than opening a thread about a good topic, only to see the same discussion go nowhere). From your numerous posts on the topic (including some valid points), it would seem that you're poised to contribute a few good ideas for the community (if its even to refine testing others are doing), which is why I said I'd be willing to help out.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

I certainly think it does. However, UP has provided what they felt is necessary. I don't agree with the approach for a few reasons, but it is what it is.

If I could have my way, I'd have asked for more extensive test results, alongside independent/real-world testing-- but it's been months, and we can't force the former, so it's on to the latter. The rest is just an endless sea of speculation and what Tesla would and wouldn't have done (heat pumps, anyone?).

I get that you're not paid to do this- neither am I. But I do like forums as a community resource and when it's a topic I'm interested in, it makes sense to contribute (few things worse than opening a thread about a good topic, only to see the same discussion go nowhere). From your numerous posts on the topic (including some valid points), it would seem that you're poised to contribute a few good ideas for the community (if its even to refine testing others are doing), which is why I said I'd be willing to help out.

To be honest...I kinda don’t care what @Gasaraki or @holmgang have to say. OWNERS have reported and seen a decrease on FB, instagram, and forums so........yeah. Y’all’s opinion don’t count in a conversation where people have tested it. The only way to join the convo is to buy it and show your results. Right now all you look like are trolls trying to dismiss someone’s data.

Oh btw....I guess you should count this guys results too?

 

[Let's Drive]

Oh btw....I guess you should count this guys results too?

Personally, this is the type of info I'm looking for. Good call by that guy adjusting the angle on his lip. It was something I was wondering about when I saw other people getting different numbers than mine (parts installation, in general). I've seen a number of factory performance spoilers during my autocross events, where the adhesive on the edges doesn't hold the spoiler down properly, and I've wondered if it's possible that it may have an impact, too. If this person/group does regular testing like this, is it something you could link me to (or DM)?

I've seen people test with taping the gaps/seams in high-speed aero runs, but for some reason, never thought to try it on the 3, lol. Not that I'd drive around with tape on my car, but it would be interesting to see how little touches impact things.

 

[MagnusMako]

I have the front lip and the lip gained me 10 wh/mi and the spoiler another 15 wh/mi. I’m happy with the looks and efficiency at 270ish.View attachment 604183

I'd be interested in some closer angled pics from the front/back if you have any. I am thinking about getting this aero kit but not really sure about it based on UP's small site pics.

 

[Noodles]

instead of arguing ... take a fluid dynamics class

and start your own CFD analysis

go out there and proof it, if done correctly you should be a 5 to 10% difference from theoretical results to real world results.

If CFD results was done correctly, the real world results are pretty close

 

[TwoK4drSi]

I'd be interested in some closer angled pics from the front/back if you have any. I am thinking about getting this aero kit but not really sure about it based on UP's small site pics.