Tesla Model 3 vs Chevy Bolt

[MP3Mike]

Maybe it is the angle of the shot, but man those are some skinny tires.

Have you seen the tires on the BMW i3? (LRR tires is part of how they are getting the mileage, performance/handling be damned.)

 

[diamond.g]

Have you seen the tires on the BMW i3? (LRR tires is part of how they are getting the mileage, performance/handling be damned.)

Yeah. At least there are "cheaper"...

 

[Menifeer]

One item that didn't appear in post #1 in this thread is the proximity of buyers to dealers/service centers.

Most every address in the country is a short drive from a Chevy dealer (I could almost walk home from my nearest one). My nearest Tesla service center (even here in Tesla country) is about 65 miles away. In some states, people have to go a lot farther.

Advantage Bolt.

Tesla could resolve the issue by partnering with another company to provide repairs. Maybe some such thing is in the works.

"AndChevrolet can lose money on the Bolt during startup."

Chevrolet can lose money on the Bolt forever. They can make their profits on light trucks, and use the Bolt to meet federal CAFE standards (while at the same time pumping out more muscle cars).

IIRC, Chevy has had several car lines that never made a profit. The Corvair, for sure, and maybe even the Saturn...

 

[TexasEV]

One item that didn't appear in post #1 in this thread is the proximity of buyers to dealers/service centers.

Most every address in the country is a short drive from a Chevy dealer (I could almost walk home from my nearest one). My nearest Tesla service center (even here in Tesla country) is about 65 miles away. In some states, people have to go a lot farther.

Advantage Bolt.

That assumes most Chevy dealers will service the Bolt. I wouldn't make that assumption. I know a Volt owner in San Marcos, TX for example who loved the car but sold it because he couldn't get it serviced by the Chevy dealer there. At 30,000 cars/year that averages to less than 10 Bolt sales per dealer per year. Many of those dealers aren't going to want to make the investment in training and equipment.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

One item that didn't appear in post #1 in this thread is the proximity of buyers to dealers/service centers.

Most every address in the country is a short drive from a Chevy dealer (I could almost walk home from my nearest one). My nearest Tesla service center (even here in Tesla country) is about 65 miles away. In some states, people have to go a lot farther.

Advantage Bolt.

Tesla could resolve the issue by partnering with another company to provide repairs. Maybe some such thing is in the works.


IIRC, Chevy has had several car lines that never made a profit. The Corvair, for sure, and maybe even the Saturn...

From the launch event....EM said they are targeting doubling the amount of Service Centers worldwide.

Remember, while Tesla IS exploding on to the scene with the Model 3, they still won't have the volume of services to perform that Chevy does, especially since Chevy has many other cars to work on, not just the Bolt.

 

[Menifeer]

That assumes most Chevy dealers will service the Bolt. I wouldn't make that assumption. I know a Volt owner in San Marcos, TX for example who loved the car but sold it because he couldn't get it serviced by the Chevy dealer there. At 30,000 cars/year that averages to less than 10 Bolt sales per dealer per year. Many of those dealers aren't going to want to make the investment in training and equipment.

You may be right about the dealers who believe that EVs are a passing fad, but those who believe they're here to stay will see the benefit of preparing to sell/service them.

Chevy will probably help dealers prepare by offering them training and equipment at no/low cost.

 

[Jeff N]

Maybe it is the angle of the shot, but man those are some skinny tires.

It's just the angle. The Bolt EV uses the same tires as the 2016 Volt, 215/50R17, and those aren't unusually skinny.

 

[Vitold]

You may be right about the dealers who believe that EVs are a passing fad, but those who believe they're here to stay will see the benefit of preparing to sell/service them.

Chevy will probably help dealers prepare by offering them training and equipment at no/low cost.

Marketing Director Steve Majoros in Jan 2016 interview said that in the beginning Bolt will not be available nationwide. So we are most likely looking at California getting them first...maybe for the whole first year.

 

[MichFin]

"If you decide to lease either car, then you don’t get the tax credit at all." This is not true as it was explained to me the credit goes to the leasing company and results in a lower lease price.

 

[Jeff N]

Marketing Director Steve Majoros in Jan 2016 interview said that in the beginning Bolt will not be available nationwide. So we are most likely looking at California getting them first...maybe for the whole first year.

But he also said it would be sold in all 50 states. It will go through a distribution roll-out process. Model 3 also. We don't know the timing yet but later this year GM will send out a calendar plan to their dealers showing which regions get the cars and these documents usually leak to the media.

 

[MP3Mike]

"If you decide to lease either car, then you don’t get the tax credit at all." This is not true as it was explained to me the credit goes to the leasing company and results in a lower lease price.

It results in a lower monthly payment, but a higher residual at the end if you decide to keep the car. So if you are only going to lease it and turn it in at the end you are good. If you are planning on keeping the car at the end of the lease you end up paying the $7,500 as part of the residual. (At least with the current Model S lease.)

 

[mikevbf]

But he also said it would be sold in all 50 states. It will go through a distribution roll-out process. Model 3 also. We don't know the timing yet but later this year GM will send out a calendar plan to their dealers showing which regions get the cars and these documents usually leak to the media.

Here is the question, how many of you will test drive a Bolt if they are available for test driving before the Model 3 in your area? I will.

 

[HookBill]

Here is the question, how many of you will test drive a Bolt if they are available for test driving before the Model 3 in your area? I will.

Hey, why not? If you are a true EV person, it would make sense to go down and give it a try. All the Volt people I know love their cars and there is nothing that tells me the Bolt will not provide others with a similar experience. As the old adage goes, if the shoe fits, wear it. Especially if you can't wait another year for a car. At the least, you can lease one and then move on to the Model 3 later.

 

[Jeff N]

One interesting feature, as I understand it, is true one-pedal driving. The Volt and Model S have the option for heavy regen to a near stop but require the driver to step on the brake pedal to complete and hold a full stop. The Bolt goes further and will bring the car to a complete stop and hold it there without the use of the brake pedal. I believe this even works on inclines.

 

[Jeff N]

Interesting battery pack numbers. The Bolt numbers are from official GM published specs. The Tesla numbers are the best estimates I could find and are from here:
Pics/Info: Inside the battery pack

Model S60
Pack volume: 365 L
Pack weight: 1,000 pounds, 454 kg
Gravimetric density: 132 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 164 Wh per L

Bolt EV
Pack volume 285 L
Pack weight: 960 pounds, 435 kg
Gravimetric density: 138 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 211 Wh per L

These numbers are better for the Bolt EV. The Bolt EV pack numbers are about 60% better density by weight and volume than the Spark EV. The numbers look worse for Tesla because they used the same pack size and structure for both the 60 and 85 kWh packs. The numbers for the S85 would be:

Model S85
Pack volume: 365 L
Pack weight: 1,200 pounds, 544 kg
Gravimetric density: 156 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 233 Wh per L

Here, Tesla does better but the Bolt still comes in a strong 2nd. It will be interesting to see what the Model 3 numbers look like since it is expected to have at least 2 pack capacities probably using a single pack size and structure like the Model S.

 

[Menifeer]

Here is the question, how many of you will test drive a Bolt if they are available for test driving before the Model 3 in your area? I will.

I'll test drive, too. And I currently plan to own one for the year or two until my Model 3 arrives.

 

[McRat]

Just like the Model 3, I will evaluate the Bolt when it is available.

EV's are changing. Making decisions based on pre-production notes and interwebbythingy opinions isn't a good idea.

 

[Vitold]

Interesting battery pack numbers. The Bolt numbers are from official GM published specs. The Tesla numbers are the best estimates I could find and are from here:
Pics/Info: Inside the battery pack

Model S60
Pack volume: 365 L
Pack weight: 1,000 pounds, 454 kg
Gravimetric density: 132 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 164 Wh per L

Bolt EV
Pack volume 285 L
Pack weight: 960 pounds, 435 kg
Gravimetric density: 138 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 211 Wh per L

These numbers are better for the Bolt EV. The Bolt EV pack numbers are about 60% better density by weight and volume than the Spark EV. The numbers look worse for Tesla because they used the same pack size and structure for both the 60 and 85 kWh packs. The numbers for the S85 would be:

Model S85
Pack volume: 365 L
Pack weight: 1,200 pounds, 544 kg
Gravimetric density: 156 Wh per kg
Volumetric density: 233 Wh per L

Here, Tesla does better but the Bolt still comes in a strong 2nd. It will be interesting to see what the Model 3 numbers look like since it is expected to have at least 2 pack capacities probably using a single pack size and structure like the Model S.

You forget that S60 battery can be swapped in 90seconds. Bolt's battery design has worse cooling and heating and has less reserve capacity. That is probably why Chevy guarantees their battery for 8 years 100000 miles - or less than 7 years if you drive 15k/year. Of course, they designed it for the life of the car but decline to state how long is that (hopefully longer than EV1)

 

[ChooseGreen]

One of the main reasons for Tesla over Chevy is that Tesla is essentially forcing the ICE automotive world's hand on this one. Tesla is creating its line of cars because it really should have been done a long time ago. Tesla wants others to build awesome EVs and keeps making their cars better to force others to join.

GM on the other hand started with EVs, but then realized they didn't have to so crushed every EV1 that was made. They are doing it again, I assume for regulatory reasons. They are also pushing legislation and playing dirty to try to slow Tesla sales.

I am choosing Tesla because a company that is that passionate about creating an environmentally sustainable vehicle and is going to make it good as well as continue to support it. I am supporting all of the work that Tesla has single-handedly done to get the industry to this point. I just couldn't afford to do it with a Roadster, S or X. There are many other manufacturers that had the opportunity over the past century, but chose not to in the interest of, I can only assume, lining their own pockets.

I wish the Bolt and all other EVs success, but I don't wish that success to be through trying to pull the other sustainable vehicles down.

 

[Jeff N]

You forget that S60 battery can be swapped in 90seconds.

You forgot that Tesla's swapping station experiment at Harris Ranch was a failure. According to Tesla, drivers are just not interested in swapping battery packs and utilization of the swapping station has been poor.

I myself think that swapping stations have potential but Tesla owners appear to disagree.

Bolt's battery design has worse cooling and heating and has less reserve capacity.

Source?

GM has implied that the Bolt battery liquid cooling thermal management system is less capable than the Volt's but doesn't need to be since the new LG cells are less heat sensitive. GM has not said the Bolt's cooling or heating system is "worse" than whatever will be in the standard Model 3. Nor has anyone at Tesla or GM said that the Bolt EV will have less reserve capacity than the Model 3 (or Model S).

The Volt's cooling system uses thin aluminum fins with coolant channels that have direct contact with the entire surface of each cell. The Bolt system also has aluminum cooling fins that have direct contact with the entire surface of each cell but the fins do not contain coolant channels are are instead attached at their base with a coolant plate which contains circulating liquid coolant. The Model S pack uses a cooling system that has contact with only part of each cylindrical cell.

That is probably why Chevy guarantees their battery for 8 years 100000 miles - or less than 7 years if you drive 15k/year.

GM's battery warranty is the same as pretty much every other BEV maker other than Tesla. Tesla used to limit the S60 to 125,000 miles but removed the mileage limit a couple of years ago. The warranty time limit is still 8 years.

However, the warranty only covers sudden failures and not the gradual capacity loss that comes from many miles and charging cycles:

1. The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty.