Tesla Model 3 vs. Honda Accord Hybrid

[Knightshade]

I believe that the SR+ weighs somewhat less than the LR, mainly due to the LR being an AWD and the SR+ a RWD. So the efficiency of the SR+ will be better than the LR. If true, then a measured 150 mile loss in your loaner LR AWD should be more than what you would obtain from the SR+ in the same trip.

Yeah

Fuel Economy of 2020 Tesla Model 3

that's 2020 numbers (they don't have SR posted for 2021 yet), but in general the SR is a bit more efficient with lower weight and a single PM motor.


As to range loss, the typical observed behavior is you might lose as much as 5-10% in the first year (some folks a bit more or less but seems a decent average), and then not much for years after.

 

[boriszima]

Where else can I ask about this? I've been super impressed since after test driving a Tesla and I'm just trying to see if there is a catch with it (bad service, parts, etc.) because apart from the price the Tesla looks something too good to be true.

some of the "unexpected" costs that come owning Tesla (not implying not the same for other luxury brands)
1 - Tires - They wore out quickly, around 25k-30k on average even with mild driving. better performance, low drag, heavy weight contributes to this.
2- Insurance can be and likely will be considerably more expensive compared to a Honda
3 - installing a plug to charge can be expensive depending on how far your main panel is, does it have enough to support charging, etc.

Tesla Service - if you set your expectations like of ATT, Verizon, Bank of America, then you will be satisficed. Good thing, you wont need it for years unless bad things happen.

 

[rhatguy]

I did exactly this. I bought a brand new 2019 Honda Accord hybrid touring. Id always wanted a Tesla but didn't want to deal with issues and wanted a reliable car so I went with the Honda. It died on me the day I drove it off the lot with a hole in the radiator. Over the next few months I continued to take it back to the dealer over and over for first one thing then another. Eventually I talked the dealer into buying it back from me. I bought a used 2018 M3 AWD and have loved it ever since. Best decision ever.

Don't let a couple thousand dollars keep you from getting the car you want if you're going to be driving it for years. I'm evidence that that decision can bite you.

 

[baylife650]

I did exactly this. I bought a brand new 2019 Honda Accord hybrid touring. Id always wanted a Tesla but didn't want to deal with issues and wanted a reliable car so I went with the Honda. It died on me the day I drove it off the lot with a hole in the radiator. Over the next few months I continued to take it back to the dealer over and over for first one thing then another. Eventually I talked the dealer into buying it back from me. I bought a used 2018 M3 AWD and have loved it ever since. Best decision ever.

Don't let a couple thousand dollars keep you from getting the car you want if you're going to be driving it for years. I'm evidence that that decision can bite you.

Geeez that sounds like a freakin nightmare! Glad to hear that you've had much more success with the M3.

 

[DaveRZ]

I have no choice but to offer the same advice just about everyone else is giving. Your real choice should be between the Honda and the Long Range 3. If the LR isn't affordable, then you have your answer, buy the Honda, it's a great car.

You absolutely can make your commute with an SR+, but you'll be happier (and have zero range anxiety) if you get the LR.

Remember that the range advertised is based on EPA testing, which means 46MPH average speed (Highway test), and a whole bunch of other factors that aren't real world for most people on most days. So you have to assume you'll only get 75-80% of the rated range. Add to that the fact that you'll want to avoid using the top and bottom 10% of the battery on a regular basis, and you see that you won't have a ton of margin to play with. Pre-covid I had a 120 mile round trip to San Diego and back and due to the heavy traffic would actually average 45-50MPH for the whole trip, so I was meeting or exceeding the EPA ratings (I would've much rather made the drive at 80MPH though)

Also, rated range assumes a certain amount of city driving, which includes lots of regeneration (capturing power while slowing down to charge the battery a bit). But if your drive is mostly highway, you won't get much regen, further eroding that rated range on the website.

Thus ends my push for the LR.

If you go with an EV, having a "fully" charged (90%) car every day is amazing. I've had mine for 1.5 years, and it still makes me smile every morning when I unplug it and it's "full". I considered a hybrid before buying it, but the thought of waiting in line for gas at Sam's Club/Costco every 3 days annoyed me so much I decided the higher cost of the LR3 was a better option (granted at the time there was about 5K in tax incentives and rebates to offset it). I now have 21K miles on mine (would be 35K if it weren't for Covid). No oil changes, no repairs, just 2 tire rotations that i did myself only because I wanted to, the tires were wearing evenly.

Your cost to get the needed electrical capacity into your garage/driveway will vary SIGNIFICANTLY depending on where your panel is, what capacity it has, and where you want your outlet/charger to be located. I DIY'd mine for about $150 worth of stuff from Lowes. Definitely get a quote for installing a 240v 50a (typically a NEMA 14-50) outlet in your garage before you buy.

best of luck!

 

[XPsionic]

So you have to assume you'll only get 75-80% of the rated range. Add to that the fact that you'll want to avoid using the top and bottom 10% of the battery on a regular basis, and you see that you won't have a ton of margin to play with.

SR+ EPA rated range = 264mi

264x 0.75 (highway real range estimate) x 0.8 (don't use the top or bottom 10%) x 0.95 (battery degradation after 1 year)
= 150.48 mi

So the SR+ is right on the money for a 150mi round trip commute if the whole way is 75mph freeway. But knowing So Cal traffic and weather... let's just say the SR+ should have no issues doing this commute if someone charges it up to 90% each night at home.

But I gotta agree with DaveRZ here, I'd feel better with a LR if there's no charging at work.

If you do charge the car to 95% and is willing to drive it home until there's 5% left, then there's another 15-20 miles buffer left with the SR+. So it's very doable.

 

[DrMichael]

Had a 2015 Accord Hybrid, replaced with a 2019 model 3 performance. Granted, the new accord hybrid somewhat different from the newer versions, take my experience with that caveat.

agree with what most have said.

advantages of Accord was the massive range (on road trips, we routinely got 45-50 mpg and over 600 miles) and the wide availability of gasoline and rapid filling compared to charging. Comfortable at cruising speeds.

disadvantages of the Honda: boring drive, loud 4 cylinder engine. Maintenance and repair were seamless at the dealership but frequent and expensive.

advantages of the model 3 have been reviewed by many. The car is much more exciting to drive than the Honda and the tech is way better. The trunk is much larger also (the battery pack in the 2015 Accord hybrid encroached on the trunk, it was tiny, not sure if there cases with newer models).

ultimately the decision is best made by driving both cars and evaluating what’s important to you. My wife preferred the Honda for the range but I much prefer the model 3.

 

[pure9]

Alright so I finally got my hands on a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD (with 19" wheels) for a full day and made my trip which was about 150 miles. The range loss was crazy. I used up almost 210 miles of range in my 150-mile actual commute but my SA said that is due to the 19" inch wheels which I won't be getting; I'll be going with the standard 18" wheels with the aero hub cap. There was some elevation on my route too but nothing too crazy. I was also driving on "Chill" mode thinking that it would consume less battery but it was brought to my attention by my SA that chill mode sometimes uses more power since you tend to floor the car more (can someone verify this?) Also, do the wheels make that big a difference that I lost 60 miles more from my projected range? I started with 268 miles on the car and got back home with 58 miles left.

I wasn't using the AC too much and was maintaining a speed of 65-70mph on the freeway so the massive range loss came as a shock to me. I definitely should not be looking at the SR+ and this just makes the decision harder for me now.

Apart from that I absolutely loved the car, autopilot is such a huge upgrade and made bumper to bumper traffic an absolute breeze. I did notice that the car sometimes gives jerks when braking on AP but nothing too crazy, it did not bother me.

 

[Vaillant]

The rated range is based on EPA test parameters, which are at a slower speed rather than typical highway speed. It makes a big difference! The rated range is what is shown on the main screen. If you go to the energy screen, you can see what it actually projects you’ll be able to achieve based on your most recent miles.

Tesla actually has different official efficiencies based on tire/wheel size. The 18” is definitely the most efficient. Here’s an article about it:

Tesla breaks down range of Model 3 Performance with different wheels — surprising differences - Electrek

 

[RayK]

I believe that the extra range associated with the 18" Aero wheels is something like 5% versus the 19". So your 60 mile range "loss" would be a few miles less with the smaller wheels.

Constant highway driving would be a worse case for the most energy required (lower overall efficiency) than the same distance covered on city streets with stop-and-go driving.

I've only driven my car a couple of miles on chill mode over it's 18K miles. I don't know if what your SA said was true but it could be if you have a heavy right foot (like I do).

 

[Watts_Up]

Alright so I finally got my hands on a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD (with 19" wheels) for a full day and made my trip
which was about 150 miles. The range loss was crazy. I used up almost 210 miles of range in my 150-mile actual commute
but my SA said that is due to the 19" inch wheels which I won't be getting;
I'll be going with the standard 18" wheels with the aero hub cap.
There was some elevation on my route too but nothing too crazy.
I was also driving on "Chill" mode thinking that it would consume less battery but it was brought to my attention by my SA
that chill mode sometimes uses more power since you tend to floor the car more (can someone verify this?)
Also, do the wheels make that big a difference that I lost 60 miles more from my projected range?
I started with 268 miles on the car and got back home with 58 miles left.

I wasn't using the AC too much and was maintaining a speed of 65-70mph on the freeway
so the massive range loss came as a shock to me. I definitely should not be looking at the SR+
and this just makes the decision harder for me now.

Apart from that I absolutely loved the car, autopilot is such a huge upgrade and made bumper to bumper traffic an absolute breeze.
I did notice that the car sometimes gives jerks when braking on AP but nothing too crazy, it did not bother me.

I was looking at ABRP and they use the following consumption:

2021 Model 3 LR AWD (18" wheels) 255 Wh/Mile

2021 Model 3 LR AWD (18" wheels) 270 Wh/Mile

If you estimate that the battery capacity is 70 kWh and you can use 80% (from 10% to 90%) the usable capacity is 56 kWh.

So the 18" wheels would provide 219 miles versus 207 miles for the 19" wheels so 12 miles difference or 5%, not really noticeable.

The major factor affecting the range is the speed... and the weather condition (wind and temperature) over the tire size.

In my case I choose the 19" wheels mostly because I prefer the look compare to the 18" plastic cover.

 

[Sukhshanti]

I love Hondas, grew up with them, but let's be real, this isn't even a comparison if you value driving experience whatsoever.

 

[jjrandorin]

Alright so I finally got my hands on a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD (with 19" wheels) for a full day and made my trip which was about 150 miles. The range loss was crazy. I used up almost 210 miles of range in my 150-mile actual commute but my SA said that is due to the 19" inch wheels which I won't be getting; I'll be going with the standard 18" wheels with the aero hub cap. There was some elevation on my route too but nothing too crazy. I was also driving on "Chill" mode thinking that it would consume less battery but it was brought to my attention by my SA that chill mode sometimes uses more power since you tend to floor the car more (can someone verify this?) Also, do the wheels make that big a difference that I lost 60 miles more from my projected range? I started with 268 miles on the car and got back home with 58 miles left.

I wasn't using the AC too much and was maintaining a speed of 65-70mph on the freeway so the massive range loss came as a shock to me. I definitely should not be looking at the SR+ and this just makes the decision harder for me now.

Apart from that I absolutely loved the car, autopilot is such a huge upgrade and made bumper to bumper traffic an absolute breeze. I did notice that the car sometimes gives jerks when braking on AP but nothing too crazy, it did not bother me.

I doubt that the difference in 18 inch wheels and 19 inch wheels will make that "range loss" (not rolling miles off at 1:1). Its much more likely that it was your speed driven that caused the difference, which is normal, and expected.

Unless you were driving 60 ish miles an hour on the freeway (which there was almost no chance you were, in an open freeway in CA) you wont get 1:1 mile roll off. That doesnt even count the changes in elevation. You were likely driving 75-80 miles an hour for the freeway portion of whatever drive you were doing. I didnt read the whole thread, so that may be mentioned somewhere, but I see your location as "fontana CA" so there is no chance you were driving 60 MPH on the freeway.

You should expect that, even with the 18s, your 150 mile drive, driven at regular freeway speeds of an open freeway would take 180-200 miles of range, not counting any elevation changes. So using 200-210 sounds perfectly normal to me for that drive at that speed.

TL; DR, do not expect tires to make a 60 mile "range difference". Throwing a number at the wall, I would guess that it might be 10-15 miles at most.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Alright so I finally got my hands on a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD (with 19" wheels) for a full day and made my trip which was about 150 miles. The range loss was crazy. I used up almost 210 miles of range in my 150-mile actual commute but my SA said that is due to the 19" inch wheels which I won't be getting; I'll be going with the standard 18" wheels with the aero hub cap. There was some elevation on my route too but nothing too crazy. I was also driving on "Chill" mode thinking that it would consume less battery but it was brought to my attention by my SA that chill mode sometimes uses more power since you tend to floor the car more (can someone verify this?) Also, do the wheels make that big a difference that I lost 60 miles more from my projected range? I started with 268 miles on the car and got back home with 58 miles left.

I wasn't using the AC too much and was maintaining a speed of 65-70mph on the freeway so the massive range loss came as a shock to me. I definitely should not be looking at the SR+ and this just makes the decision harder for me now.

Apart from that I absolutely loved the car, autopilot is such a huge upgrade and made bumper to bumper traffic an absolute breeze. I did notice that the car sometimes gives jerks when braking on AP but nothing too crazy, it did not bother me.

I had a similar commute about a year ago. The range loss you experienced will be an everyday thing. I would leave at 90% with 290 miles, and come back home with about 60-80 miles left or 20% battery. Now, on my commute I had several hills, stop and go traffic on the highway, and kept the Climate at around 72 degrees.

I can say even though I charged everyday at home, it was cheaper than gassing up a 35 mpg car every 2 1/2 days. With a Hybrid it should be cheaper, but consider what gas prices in out area looks like right now. We are back to Pre-Covid prices. Solar/PW/Model 3 is the ticket IMO, at least here in So Cal.

 

[jjrandorin]

I had a similar commute about a year ago. The range loss you experienced will be an everyday thing. I would leave at 90% with 290 miles, and come back home with about 60-80 miles left or 20% battery. Now, on my commute I had several hills, stop and go traffic on the highway, and kept the Climate at around 72 degrees.

I can say even though I charged everyday at home, it was cheaper than gassing up a 35 mpg car every 2 1/2 days. With a Hybrid it should be cheaper, but consider what gas prices in out area looks like right now. We are back to Pre-Covid prices. Solar/PW/Model 3 is the ticket IMO, at least here in So Cal.

I agree with this, with the exception that the powerwall helps avoid TOU peak energy charges, but does not directly help with anything with charging your car (said as a person who has Solar / PW / Model 3 myself, so pretty familiar with those products).

 

[DaveRZ]

pure9 - Glad you agree the SR+ isn't right for you, I think we worked hard to make sure you understood that point.

Try not to think of it as "range loss". The truth here is that the EPA estimates are calculated using a driving scenario that most people don't have on their commutes.

Here's a quick synopsis from fueleconomy.gov:



Note the highway test is a maximum of 60MPH, an average of 48MPH, A/C off, and acceleration that would anger Prius drivers behind you. If you drive the Model 3 (or any car for that matter) in this fashion, you should have no problem meeting or exceeding your EPA ratings. Also keep in mind that "range" includes I believe 60% "city" driving, which includes a ton of regenerative braking. Your highway commute will have very little, if any, regen. This also explains why you weren't in line with the EPA number.

 

[alexgr]

I wasn't using the AC too much and was maintaining a speed of 65-70mph on the freeway so the massive range loss came as a shock to me. I definitely should not be looking at the SR+ and this just makes the decision harder for me now.

Apart from that I absolutely loved the car, autopilot is such a huge upgrade and made bumper to bumper traffic an absolute breeze. I did notice that the car sometimes gives jerks when braking on AP but nothing too crazy, it did not bother me.

Range is reduced significantly when 1) driving aggressively; 2) in cold weather and when trying to warm up or cool down the car; 3) at high speeds. If you drive in Chill mode at 60 mph at 70F on dry road, you likely will beat the EPA rating. For "fun" I drove 35 miles (mainly 55-60 mph city) at ~30F outside with heat off (that's the "fun" part) and I was getting the EPA-rated mileage out of the car.

If you want to be able to drive 200 miles in [almost] any weather at any typical speed (70-80 mph) with full heat or AC on, then take the LR. You will be able to get close to the EPA rated mileage, but that will depend on weather and your driving.

Now, we have 2014 Accord Hybrid ... it's quality sucks!!! Replaced front wheel hub bearings at 37k (1k out of warranty ), the roof has been repainted ... twice! under a recall, thankfully (the dealer-killer asked for $1k originally) . The seats "premium leather" starts to tear apart and orange foam looks at you through the holes. . The steering tends to control itself ... like a totally mad autopilot... very wobbly. The suspension creaks like a strut is going through the hood (and 2 hours of diagnostics returned nothing but a diagnostics charge)
I could (when the car was young) get 50-60 mpg on city roads and about 43-45 on a highway. Now, it is more like 40 and 35. Last year our teenager took the car over, she typically gets 30-33 mpg. Was it worth it? Yes, this hybrid is fun (before you try a Tesla), but I would not take it if I know of all the quality issues.

By the way, we have a M3 LR for 18 months and 20k miles now, and visited a SC for the total number of 0 times. The car feels solid and reliable. The only problem was that I expected it will be my car, but it took no more than a couple days for my wife to decide that she needs it more, now I am driving an old (and really good) SUV polluting at a rate of 16 mpg and waiting for a Cybertruck.

 

[alexgr]

I had a similar commute about a year ago. The range loss you experienced will be an everyday thing. I would leave at 90% with 290 miles, and come back home with about 60-80 miles left or 20% battery.

A good thing is that the 2021 model 3 should have 317 miles at 90% SOC. Plus the heat pump can save more in mild weather.

 

[mswlogo]

Mine loses about 10 miles on average sitting in the parking lot. if it is really hot that day, more. sentry mode doesn't seem to use enough energy to make a difference. it will lose the same whether it is on or off. same with cabin overheat. ac or fan only loses about the same. I haven't tried turning it off, though.

pretty much any time I walk by the car it is making some type of fan sound. other people have even commented to me about it.

it is sleeping. I have no idea what is going on. mobile service said that was about right. I wish tesla would give you info to see where all the energy is going. I guess I should add that to my wish list (another thread).

You say Sentry doesn’t. But it does !!! And that’s your problem. Should lose no more than a mile for a typical work day. Assuming your not preconditioning or.

I dii ok not use cabin over temp, summon standby or sentry. Losses are negligible.

But I agree with a long commute don’t even think of an SR.

 

[mswlogo]

Range is reduced significantly when 1) driving aggressively; 2) in cold weather and when trying to warm up or cool down the car; 3) at high speeds. If you drive in Chill mode at 60 mph at 70F on dry road, you likely will beat the EPA rating. For "fun" I drove 35 miles (mainly 55-60 mph city) at ~30F outside with heat off (that's the "fun" part) and I was getting the EPA-rated mileage out of the car.

Both Model 3 and X use surprisingly little watts for cooling.

I did the same thing on my Model 3 for fun. I had sun a short commute and the car was in the garage. I’d leave the HVAC off and I’d easily beat EPA when it was 30F out. And essentially no regen. The lack of Regen seems to hurt the X more.

Chill makes zero difference. Other than it might train your muscle memory to not accelerate so fast. You can easily get poor range in Chill mode too.