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Tesla Model 3 vs ICE as it relates to the environment

I'm not saying that an EV or even a PHEV wouldn't work for me. I'm quite sure that I'd be content with doing the daily grind in an EV. But I love to road trip and I'm just not convinced that I want to do that in today's EVs, at least not with the limitations that are so common today. Until I started researching, I didn't realize just how much range is lost in cold weather....or how that can affect charging times (especially cars that don't precondition)...and how much wind direction/speed and/or elevation changes can make a huge difference.

I'm also an enthusiast. I love modifying my cars. I love manual tranmission vehicles. I love turbocharged engines. So no matter what I decide to do in the future, I'm not getting rid of my enthusiast vehicles. I currently own an Audi that has a great audio system, excellent AWD and is fast as hell too and it even has a manual transmission, which raises the fun factor for me quite a bit.

I'm probably going to buy another car within the next year or two. A Model 3 was on the list. I see now that Toyota is going to offer the Supra with a manual transmisson, so I added that car to my list of cars to consider. I might end up getting the Supra and one of the big reasons for me is that cars like that just aren't going to be around much longer. It ticks all of my enthusiast boxes---manual transmission, RWD, turbocharged engine. So I'll most likely stick with ICE for my next new car purchase and revisit the idea of an EV in the future.
And don't forget the best part: you can (for a limited time), continue to dump your GHG's for FREE and leave future generations to wonder at the choices made by so many that put an entire planet at great peril!

Why wait: get your new ICE machine today!

Note--Never in human history have so many been so easily fooled, by so few, with so little, as documented by:

 

BigNick

Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Dec 3, 2017
1,811
1,981
Pennsylvania, USA
Note--Never in human history have so many been so easily fooled, by so few, with so little, as documented by:

I think this will be interesting to watch. and I wonder what kind of parallels to Big Tobacco and their denial of cancer can be found.
 
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And don't forget the best part: you can (for a limited time), continue to dump your GHG's for FREE and leave future generations to wonder at the choices made by so many that put an entire planet at great peril!

Why wait: get your new ICE machine today!

Note--Never in human history have so many been so easily fooled, by so few, with so little, as documented by:

Sorry, I'm not a tree hugger. Today's ICE vehicles are the cleanest they ever been. If buying an EV is your way of saving the planet, I support you. I have no guilt whatsoever about choosing to buy ICE over electric for my next car. I might make you happy to know that my lawn care equipment (mower, blower, string trimmer) is battery powered. That must count for something since gas powered small engines pollute far more than a modern ICE vehicle. Hmm....maybe I'm a closet tree hugger after all.
 

Bouba

Active Member
Sep 23, 2021
1,158
1,039
France
Sorry, I'm not a tree hugger. Today's ICE vehicles are the cleanest they ever been. If buying an EV is your way of saving the planet, I support you. I have no guilt whatsoever about choosing to buy ICE over electric for my next car. I might make you happy to know that my lawn care equipment (mower, blower, string trimmer) is battery powered. That must count for something since gas powered small engines pollute far more than a modern ICE vehicle. Hmm....maybe I'm a closet tree hugger after all.
A tree hugger would let his garden turn into a wild flower meadow 😀
 
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Sorry, I'm not a tree hugger. Today's ICE vehicles are the cleanest they ever been. If buying an EV is your way of saving the planet, I support you. I have no guilt whatsoever about choosing to buy ICE over electric for my next car. I might make you happy to know that my lawn care equipment (mower, blower, string trimmer) is battery powered. That must count for something since gas powered small engines pollute far more than a modern ICE vehicle. Hmm....maybe I'm a closet tree hugger after all.
Sadly, an interesting analysis, but not relevant. As saying goes, "Science doesn't care what you believe."

While the facts may not matter to you, for the others on the thread, let's recap some of them:

1. ICE vehicles dump GHG's with every drive, and they get more dirty and inefficient as they age. In strong contrast, EV use is clean from Day 1, and gets cleaner as the grid becomes more carbon-free every year (as it must if we're to have a usable planet for future generations). (And, yes, there are greater impacts in EV manufacturing, but the latest environmental report has that breakeven point at under 7k miles of use, IIRC.)

2. Your lack of guilt is telling: facts that are uncomfortable lead to cognitive dissonance so you (and many others) simply discount them . . . . What an odd species we are that has managed to plant the seeds to destroy our only inhabitable planet, and so blindly continues on that path "without guilt," as you say.

In closing, it is possible that your Tesla has some issue. Many here have posted living in similar, cold, environments as you, yet are having far better experiences with their Teslas. It's worthy of a visit to a different Service Center.

If not improved, then, yes, feel free to disparage your Tesla and go back to ICE--what matters most here is your total and complete convenience. The fate of an entire planet is none of your concern, of course.

The entire planet's atmosphere and oceans are here to serve as your GHG dumping ground, so feel free to continue dumping--it's your right. Plus, most negative impacts will be borne by others so don't worry, be happy:

 
And don't forget the best part: you can (for a limited time), continue to dump your GHG's for FREE and leave future generations to wonder at the choices made by so many that put an entire planet at great peril!

Why wait: get your new ICE machine today!

Note--Never in human history have so many been so easily fooled, by so few, with so little, as documented by:

The media is the last institution that should preach about deception....
 
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The media is the last institution that should preach about deception....
I am confused by your comment.

Are you suggesting that climate change issues are a Chinese hoax?

If so, are these sites "part of the scam" too?



The OP, perhaps not even a real Tesla owner, posts jaw-dropping remarks that no one else can support, and is, in fact, refuted by others living in cold climates like his. He then suggests that Tesla Service says there is nothing wrong with his car.

While this case may be a one-off meant to generate material for Tesla Q, the reality is that there billions of dollars PER DAY in revenue that will disappear as Tesla grows. I would not put it past these people to seed fake stories on TMC simply to delay the destruction of their very profitable status quo.

BTW, here's a number that's easy to remember and share: 123.

That's how much just ONE US company in the fossil fuel business made in 2012, in MILLIONS of dollars of PROFIT, and it wasn't even a record year . . . that's a massive incentive to lie, cheat, and steal the future from future generations, eh? (And yet so very many people are stunningly clueless on how they are being played for the fools they are.)


(And Saudi Aramco makes far more than that, of course. Which is why we're in bed with rulers that murder and dismember journalists when they walk into the Saudi consulate in Turkey. Just pathetic.)
 

jrmt23

he/him/his
Jan 29, 2021
315
299
Houston, TX
I am confused by your comment.

Are you suggesting that climate change issues are a Chinese hoax?

If so, are these sites "part of the scam" too?



The OP, perhaps not even a real Tesla owner, posts jaw-dropping remarks that no one else can support, and is, in fact, refuted by others living in cold climates like his. He then suggests that Tesla Service says there is nothing wrong with his car.

While this case may be a one-off meant to generate material for Tesla Q, the reality is that there billions of dollars PER DAY in revenue that will disappear as Tesla grows. I would not put it past these people to seed fake stories on TMC simply to delay the destruction of their very profitable status quo.

BTW, here's a number that's easy to remember and share: 123.

That's how much just ONE US company in the fossil fuel business made in 2012, in MILLIONS of dollars of PROFIT, and it wasn't even a record year . . . that's a massive incentive to lie, cheat, and steal the future from future generations, eh? (And yet so very many people are stunningly clueless on how they are being played for the fools they are.)


(And Saudi Aramco makes far more than that, of course. Which is why we're in bed with rulers that murder and dismember journalists when they walk into the Saudi consulate in Turkey. Just pathetic.)
Here is more data from another evidence based journal :).

 
Sadly, an interesting analysis, but not relevant. As saying goes, "Science doesn't care what you believe."

While the facts may not matter to you, for the others on the thread, let's recap some of them:

1. ICE vehicles dump GHG's with every drive, and they get more dirty and inefficient as they age. In strong contrast, EV use is clean from Day 1, and gets cleaner as the grid becomes more carbon-free every year (as it must if we're to have a usable planet for future generations). (And, yes, there are greater impacts in EV manufacturing, but the latest environmental report has that breakeven point at under 7k miles of use, IIRC.)

2. Your lack of guilt is telling: facts that are uncomfortable lead to cognitive dissonance so you (and many others) simply discount them . . . . What an odd species we are that has managed to plant the seeds to destroy our only inhabitable planet, and so blindly continues on that path "without guilt," as you say.

In closing, it is possible that your Tesla has some issue. Many here have posted living in similar, cold, environments as you, yet are having far better experiences with their Teslas. It's worthy of a visit to a different Service Center.

If not improved, then, yes, feel free to disparage your Tesla and go back to ICE--what matters most here is your total and complete convenience. The fate of an entire planet is none of your concern, of course.

The entire planet's atmosphere and oceans are here to serve as your GHG dumping ground, so feel free to continue dumping--it's your right. Plus, most negative impacts will be borne by others so don't worry, be happy:


I'm not really sure where to start with you, so I'll just start here: You apparently have me confused with the OP of this thread. I don't own a Tesla. I never have. So your quoted comment above is way off base and pretty much meaningless in context related to my stance on EVs in general.

That said, you clearly have some issues. It can be hard to interpret tone in writing, but it's pretty clear to me that you have some anger towards those who choose not to drive electric cars, as if they are all some sort of pariah. You might want to jump down off your high horse if the only safe place for you is a Tesla forum.
 
I am confused by your comment.

Are you suggesting that climate change issues are a Chinese hoax?

If so, are these sites "part of the scam" too?



The OP, perhaps not even a real Tesla owner, posts jaw-dropping remarks that no one else can support, and is, in fact, refuted by others living in cold climates like his. He then suggests that Tesla Service says there is nothing wrong with his car.

While this case may be a one-off meant to generate material for Tesla Q, the reality is that there billions of dollars PER DAY in revenue that will disappear as Tesla grows. I would not put it past these people to seed fake stories on TMC simply to delay the destruction of their very profitable status quo.

BTW, here's a number that's easy to remember and share: 123.

That's how much just ONE US company in the fossil fuel business made in 2012, in MILLIONS of dollars of PROFIT, and it wasn't even a record year . . . that's a massive incentive to lie, cheat, and steal the future from future generations, eh? (And yet so very many people are stunningly clueless on how they are being played for the fools they are.)


(And Saudi Aramco makes far more than that, of course. Which is why we're in bed with rulers that murder and dismember journalists when they walk into the Saudi consulate in Turkey. Just pathetic.)
No, climate change is real and good policy should support a responsible position. I am simply putting out there that the list of "bad guys" is quite long. I would also suggest that Russia has an interest in counties abandoning any energy sources that make them more reliable on Russia. Based on your tone I think you see D good R bad. That's fine you can have that opinion. My guess is you spend much of your life viewing things through this priism.
As far as Saudi/Russia and China I have no love for any of them.
 
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