Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Model S 2014 HV Battery issue

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Hi, I have a Model S 2014 P85+

Last Monday I was driving it near from my house in Guatemala, but the car suddenly stoped with the warning: “Unable to drive, supply voltage too low”… I thought that would be a 12V battery failure, so, on my own, I replaced it for a new one. Yesterday, after installed it, the car woke up with 13 alerts on it, so I put it on “Service Mode” and take some pictures of the screen (please find them attached to this email),

2.jpeg


The more stressful alert for me was: BMS_f080_SW_Int_HV_Disconnect: the BMS has detected that the HV battery pack voltage differs from the sum of the brick voltages, making the HV battery unavailable for charging, driving or supporting the LV battery…

It look like is something is either not connected completely or properly from the battery, or maybe a problem with the HV battery itself?

Can somebody help me, where should I start to solve this problem?

Thanks a lot for your valuable help!

Juan Carlos
 

Attachments

  • 9.jpeg
    9.jpeg
    89.5 KB · Views: 393
  • 8.jpeg
    8.jpeg
    139.8 KB · Views: 306
  • 7.jpeg
    7.jpeg
    87.7 KB · Views: 283
  • 6.jpeg
    6.jpeg
    176.4 KB · Views: 276
  • 5.jpeg
    5.jpeg
    90.6 KB · Views: 267
  • 4.jpeg
    4.jpeg
    179.5 KB · Views: 264
  • 3.jpeg
    3.jpeg
    90.8 KB · Views: 263
  • 2.jpeg
    2.jpeg
    125.3 KB · Views: 305
  • 1.jpeg
    1.jpeg
    138.6 KB · Views: 442
I was in contact with Tesla, they offer to replace emmc for free but need the car and a working battery.

Can Toolbox 3 be used even if emmc and screen is not working?
Any company in Europe that replace emmc nowdays? Maybe better to try to find someone with Toolbox 3 instead of fixing emmc?

I think fault code f123 & w123 isolation fault, and f107 & w107 cell voltage sensor are solved but needs to be erased with Toolbox 3. And then replace emmc.

Any advice for next step?
 
Upvote 0
BrainHouston wrote in post 17:
“So you CAN actually reset f123/w123 errors
LayZ remotely reset them for me“

Is this with Toolbox? Any tip how I can get in contact with someone that can remotely erase error codes after I fixed the failure?

Post in thread 'Car died. BMS errors f123, w123, w073, w035, w142, w158'
Car died. BMS errors f123, w123, w073, w035, w142, w158

I believe @LayZ can root and turn on diag mode for the car. But he might need working MCU1/2. You might reach out to him to confirm possible solutions.

I have an old PM with @LayZ, he said

Toolbox v2.1 works on MCU1 and MCU2 as well if you're able to unlock the diagnostics ethernet port.
I can provide you with both the toolbox and a special software to unlock diag port on MCU1, but are you sure you really need it? usually it's needed only by repair shops and such

You might check with him on possible options.
 
Upvote 0
Hello!
The car: 2014 Model S P85 (320kW)
The story:
I was driving on the freeway (120 km/h), pressed 100% accelerator.
The car jerked and lost power.
Alerts: BMS_w059 BMS_f059 BMS_w080 BMS_f080
Instead of 375V (3.91V*6*16), the BMS voltage jumped in a wide range (304-322-312-327V), while the cell voltages were stable at 3.91V.

Of course, it was the HV fuse problem.

Bussmann fuse: 630A 700V (441kW)

Of the 6*6=36 strands of the fuse, 9 did not burn, but remained pointed, so 27 strands were burned.
Look at the attached picture, you can see the difference between pointed and burnt strands.

From this I conclude that they were already broken before, I think they were broken by the vibration.

So 441kW/36*27=330kW That's why the fuse blew exactly, when the car was taking out the maximum power from the battery.

Thanks for the help!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1069.jpg
    IMG_1069.jpg
    137.4 KB · Views: 56
  • IMG_1072.jpg
    IMG_1072.jpg
    141.7 KB · Views: 38
  • Informative
Reactions: Droschke
Upvote 0
Hello!
The car: 2014 Model S P85 (320kW)
The story:
I was driving on the freeway (120 km/h), pressed 100% accelerator.
The car jerked and lost power.
Alerts: BMS_w059 BMS_f059 BMS_w080 BMS_f080
Instead of 375V (3.91V*6*16), the BMS voltage jumped in a wide range (304-322-312-327V), while the cell voltages were stable at 3.91V.

Of course, it was the HV fuse problem.

Bussmann fuse: 630A 700V (441kW)

Of the 6*6=36 strands of the fuse, 9 did not burn, but remained pointed, so 27 strands were burned.
Look at the attached picture, you can see the difference between pointed and burnt strands.

From this I conclude that they were already broken before, I think they were broken by the vibration.

So 441kW/36*27=330kW That's why the fuse blew exactly, when the car was taking out the maximum power from the battery.

Thanks for the help!
Fo
 
Upvote 0
Follow up this thread. I had two different failures on my car, w123 & f123 Internal isolation. And w107 & f107 cell voltage.

For Internal isolation the failure was most likely water intrusion from main fuse. Erased w123 & f123 with sending CAN messages.

For w107 & f107 I hade one loose orange cable at modul 10. I also had two bad BMB cards at modul 7 and 8. Didn’t seem to be able to erase with sending can messages. And did not resolve by it self! Even if the underlaying issue was solved. Erased codes with help from LayZ. Thank you very much for help, especially @howardc64 and @brainhouston.

Bad BMB cards:
IMG_5837.jpegIMG_5839.jpeg

Now my car is charging again with battery on the floor:
IMG_5906.jpeg
 
Upvote 0
Follow up this thread. I had two different failures on my car, w123 & f123 Internal isolation. And w107 & f107 cell voltage.

For Internal isolation the failure was most likely water intrusion from main fuse. Erased w123 & f123 with sending CAN messages.

For w107 & f107 I hade one loose orange cable at modul 10. I also had two bad BMB cards at modul 7 and 8. Didn’t seem to be able to erase with sending can messages. And did not resolve by it self! Even if the underlaying issue was solved. Erased codes with help from LayZ. Thank you very much for help, especially @howardc64 and @brainhouston.

Bad BMB cards:
View attachment 1003520View attachment 1003519

Now my car is charging again with battery on the floor:
View attachment 1003521

Nice work. A few related notes
  • @mr_hyde nicked his module 12 coolant hose when cutting open the lid so definitely pressure test coolant channel before reassembly.
  • @mr_hyde and I wondered if the corroded BMB capacitor is too close to the plastic tray resulting in natural condensation. @mr_hyde spaced it out a bit further on reassembly. You might ask him how. Conformal coating spray pattern also shows unevenness so maybe worth applying additional where needed.
  • need to run the air bleed routine (on MCU screen) when battery back in the car. AC charger likely will stop from overheating after awhile without it.
  • BMB corrosion pattern is exactly same as @mr_hyde pack which are frontal pack modules although his fuse cover was not compromised. This means moisture entry was through AGM air eq valve and/or Gore breather. He made an aluminum hood to block water dropping from top from sitting on the AGM air eq valve on top of the hump (not sure enough clearance on RWD drive cars with frunk tub insert) I've been wondering if this valve is unnecessary as later packs from 2020ish don't have it. But no one has studied in detail if these pack with removed AGM valve have additional breathers. Here are some thoughts on that Condensation Failure Inside Battery Pack (BMS_F107 code)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Follow up this thread. I had two different failures on my car, w123 & f123 Internal isolation. And w107 & f107 cell voltage.

For Internal isolation the failure was most likely water intrusion from main fuse. Erased w123 & f123 with sending CAN messages.

For w107 & f107 I hade one loose orange cable at modul 10. I also had two bad BMB cards at modul 7 and 8. Didn’t seem to be able to erase with sending can messages. And did not resolve by it self! Even if the underlaying issue was solved. Erased codes with help from LayZ. Thank you very much for help, especially @howardc64 and @brainhouston.

Bad BMB cards:
View attachment 1003520View attachment 1003519

Now my car is charging again with battery on the floor:
View attachment 1003521

Nice work. A few related notes
  • @mr_hyde nicked his module 12 coolant hose when cutting open the lid so definitely pressure test coolant channel before reassembly.
  • @mr_hyde and I wondered if the corroded BMB capacitor is too close to the plastic tray resulting in natural condensation. @mr_hyde spaced it out a bit further on reassembly. You might ask him how. Conformal coating spray pattern also shows unevenness so maybe worth applying additional where needed.
  • need to run the air bleed routine (on MCU screen) when battery back in the car. AC charger likely will stop from overheating after awhile without it.
  • BMB corrosion pattern is exactly same as @mr_hyde pack which are frontal pack modules although his fuse cover was not compromised. This means moisture entry was through AGM air eq valve and/or Gore breather. He made an aluminum hood to block water dropping from top from sitting on the AGM air eq valve on top of the hump (not sure enough clearance on RWD drive cars with frunk tub insert) I've been wondering if this valve is unnecessary as later packs from 2020ish don't have it. But no one has studied in detail if these pack with removed AGM valve have additional breathers. Here are some thoughts on that Condensation Failure Inside Battery Pack (BMS_F107 code)
Thank you for tip. I will certainly pressure rise the cooling system before assembly.
 
Upvote 0
I'm glad your got the battery back online Richard! As Howard mentioned, definitely check the pressure on the cooling system to make sure you didn't cut or crack any of the tubes or pinch any o-rings. There are 32 possible failure points. I just assumed that was a non-issue and it cost me 2-3 more weeks and a lot of detailed cleanup.

On the BMB corrosion, I had one acute failure on BMB #8, but found a total of 5 boards showing signs of pending issues. In my case, I had one instance of corrosion on the back of sensor wire socket like you show and my failed capacitors were C26 and C27 which are at the top of the board. This is an early 2015 85 pack. I replaced the 5 BMB boards with ebay units and went through all 16 modules and did the following:

1. Cleaned all of the areas of corrosion with 100% alcohol and cotton swabs.
2. Recoated each of the suspect areas with an additional coat of conformal coating (brushed on).
3. I observed the the plastic shield from the lower half of the module was making contact with C26 and C27 on most modules which appeared to wear on the conformal coating and promote condensation to collect on the two points which promoted corrosion in my case. The upper and lower plastic covers overlap significantly and the upper cover on the outside of the lower cover was actually pushing the lower cover into the BMB. The lower cover had a perforation line where I cut off the excess tab to reduce the overlap and add more clearance. The combination of upper and lower covers still overlap, just not excessively.
4. To make sure no part of the cover touched any components on the BMB, I installed a longer screw with three tiny nylon washers under it to be the contact point with the plastic shield. There are a pair of screws that support the logic harness that are right in the middle of the board perfect for this. The screw installed is stainless so it won't simply start rusting.
5. I also cleaned all 112 sensor connections on the module plates with alcohol swabs and recoated with conformal coating. This exercise confirmed there were no loose connections and will hopefully help the connections stay in place going forward.

It would be hard for a garage/shop/professional to put in the hours I did to 'bulletproof' my modules but I'm glad I took the time. My goal for this pack is to have it running happily when the first cells start to fail. I can't do anything about the chemistry in the actual cells, but I do feel like the design flaws and corner-cutting on Tesla's part are better than new.

E0C2A098-F72F-4238-87D7-D21A7BB4006D_1_105_c.jpeg


C4B0DA86-B0C3-4084-8561-E4526FF62F5E_1_105_c.jpeg

My wife was out of town when these photos were taken. I don't recommend trying this in your own kitchen!
2DA3B7AB-312E-4633-9512-D0F2ED006E7E_1_105_c.jpeg
 
Upvote 0
I'm glad your got the battery back online Richard! As Howard mentioned, definitely check the pressure on the cooling system to make sure you didn't cut or crack any of the tubes or pinch any o-rings. There are 32 possible failure points. I just assumed that was a non-issue and it cost me 2-3 more weeks and a lot of detailed cleanup.

On the BMB corrosion, I had one acute failure on BMB #8, but found a total of 5 boards showing signs of pending issues. In my case, I had one instance of corrosion on the back of sensor wire socket like you show and my failed capacitors were C26 and C27 which are at the top of the board. This is an early 2015 85 pack. I replaced the 5 BMB boards with ebay units and went through all 16 modules and did the following:

1. Cleaned all of the areas of corrosion with 100% alcohol and cotton swabs.
2. Recoated each of the suspect areas with an additional coat of conformal coating (brushed on).
3. I observed the the plastic shield from the lower half of the module was making contact with C26 and C27 on most modules which appeared to wear on the conformal coating and promote condensation to collect on the two points which promoted corrosion in my case. The upper and lower plastic covers overlap significantly and the upper cover on the outside of the lower cover was actually pushing the lower cover into the BMB. The lower cover had a perforation line where I cut off the excess tab to reduce the overlap and add more clearance. The combination of upper and lower covers still overlap, just not excessively.
4. To make sure no part of the cover touched any components on the BMB, I installed a longer screw with three tiny nylon washers under it to be the contact point with the plastic shield. There are a pair of screws that support the logic harness that are right in the middle of the board perfect for this. The screw installed is stainless so it won't simply start rusting.
5. I also cleaned all 112 sensor connections on the module plates with alcohol swabs and recoated with conformal coating. This exercise confirmed there were no loose connections and will hopefully help the connections stay in place going forward.

It would be hard for a garage/shop/professional to put in the hours I did to 'bulletproof' my modules but I'm glad I took the time. My goal for this pack is to have it running happily when the first cells start to fail. I can't do anything about the chemistry in the actual cells, but I do feel like the design flaws and corner-cutting on Tesla's part are better than new.

View attachment 1003545

View attachment 1003546
My wife was out of town when these photos were taken. I don't recommend trying this in your own kitchen!
View attachment 1003552
Good tip! And serious good work!

Reminds me about when I was 15 and dismantled my moped engine at the kitchen table :) My mom was not that happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mr_hyde
Upvote 0
Follow up this thread. I had two different failures on my car, w123 & f123 Internal isolation. And w107 & f107 cell voltage.

For Internal isolation the failure was most likely water intrusion from main fuse. Erased w123 & f123 with sending CAN messages.

For w107 & f107 I hade one loose orange cable at modul 10. I also had two bad BMB cards at modul 7 and 8. Didn’t seem to be able to erase with sending can messages. And did not resolve by it self! Even if the underlaying issue was solved. Erased codes with help from LayZ. Thank you very much for help, especially @howardc64 and @brainhouston.

Bad BMB cards:
View attachment 1003520View attachment 1003519

Now my car is charging again with battery on the floor:
View attachment 1003521
Hello! Can you please tell us the method of resetting these errors via can?
 
Upvote 0
I can give you some links but not a full instruction. I got help from a friend. It was not so easy the first time. About the program that was used I don’t know, but you should be able to google or YouTube it.

Search on YouTube for example

Post in thread 'TESLA MODEL S stopped working... CAR MAY NOT RESTART'
TESLA MODEL S stopped working... CAR MAY NOT RESTART


IMG_5915.png
IMG_5914.png
IMG_5750.jpeg
IMG_5749.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mack Dack
Upvote 0