Vendor Tesla Model S Battery Extended Service Plans from 057 Technology

[lgli]

original 60 packs simply fail significantly more often than other variants due to the higher current per-cell required for normal operation.

I have tried finding more info but no huge success. No max discharge current specs, but this was a bit shocking: "Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. However, Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes in their battery cell packs." Tesla 18650 Battery Specs - Introduction, Quantity and Dimensions_Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Pack
Is 2 amps true? Have you seen the full Panasonic specs?

 

[GeoG]

I also want to share a reply I recently wrote to someone in California (might even be someone from here, not sure) who was concerned about shipping costs. Hopefully this helps someone else out that way understand the value here:

Seems like a no brainer to me to get the warranty now. Is there a limit to the number of years or mileage? I apologize in advance if this was mentioned earlier.

 

[wk057]

I have tried finding more info but no huge success. No max discharge current specs, but this was a bit shocking: "Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. However, Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes in their battery cell packs." Tesla 18650 Battery Specs - Introduction, Quantity and Dimensions_Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Pack
Is 2 amps true? Have you seen the full Panasonic specs?

With the original 60 packs, supercharging could hit over 5A per cell... well beyond any Panasonic spec I've ever come across.

Even home dual-charger charging would be over 1A per cell with the 60 packs.

Discharge is worse. Doing a WOT "launch" in a 60 can pull ~15A per cell.

Seems like a no brainer to me to get the warranty now. Is there a limit to the number of years or mileage? I apologize in advance if this was mentioned earlier.

The plans are currently 24 month/25,000 mile plans that begin at the end of the Tesla OEM warranty (or immediately if already expired). No limit on vehicle's current mileage or age, provided the battery monitoring device finds no pre-existing issues.

 

[cduzz]

With the original 60 packs, supercharging could hit over 5A per cell... well beyond any Panasonic spec I've ever come across.

Even home dual-charger charging would be over 1A per cell with the 60 packs.

Discharge is worse. Doing a WOT "launch" in a 60 can pull ~15A per cell.



The plans are currently 24 month/25,000 mile plans that begin at the end of the Tesla OEM warranty (or immediately if already expired). No limit on vehicle's current mileage or age, provided the battery monitoring device finds no pre-existing issues.

So, if I understand correctly...

Presuming I have a 2016 S 90D which was born March 2016....

I can give you $1,799 and you'll mail me a dongle that I put onto my car.

I then drive around until March 2024 under the *tesla* warranty. If my battery takes a huge steaming dump January 2026, I'll be eligible for a battery replacement from you or one of your affiliates? That battery replacement will be some other similar 90 battery pack that's of roughly comparable capacity as my recently failed 90 pack?

And, depending on how things go for you in 2025 and early 2026 you may offer 2 more years of support for another $1,000 - $45,000 (depending on how well that generation of packs appears to be lasting according to your available telemetry) ?

 

[davezforce]

How long for MX 100?

 

[Decibelle]

Sorry, if this has been covered.
If the replacement battery fails within the coverage period, will the service plan cover a second battery, or do we have to sign up for a new service agreement after the first replacement?

 

[wk057]

So, if I understand correctly...

Presuming I have a 2016 S 90D which was born March 2016....

I can give you $1,799 and you'll mail me a dongle that I put onto my car.

I then drive around until March 2024 under the *tesla* warranty. If my battery takes a huge steaming dump January 2026, I'll be eligible for a battery replacement from you or one of your affiliates? That battery replacement will be some other similar 90 battery pack that's of roughly comparable capacity as my recently failed 90 pack?

And, depending on how things go for you in 2025 and early 2026 you may offer 2 more years of support for another $1,000 - $45,000 (depending on how well that generation of packs appears to be lasting according to your available telemetry) ?

This all sounds about right...... although I doubt a renewal will cost $45,000

How long for MX 100?

Model X 60, 75, 90 support scheduled for next weekend.

Pre-2018 S/X 100 kWh plans scheduled for about a month out (possibly less). These are all still covered by Tesla, so not a huge rush. The plans will be slightly more expensive than non-100 plans.

If the replacement battery fails within the coverage period, will the service plan cover a second battery, or do we have to sign up for a new service agreement after the first replacement?

Updating the terms and FAQ to be more clear on this, but your coverage under the plan will continue for the remainder of the term and cover the the replacement battery, and you'll also have the option to renew (pro-rata at the current rates) to bump it out to a full two-years at the time of a replacement.

 

[wk057]

Updated Service Plan Terms on the Service Plan Site now.

Hopefully this helps and makes things less ambiguous.

Obviously the original terms apply to already purchased plans (and are available to view in the service plans account tab), but for this revision since it's mostly just organizational changes and even some customer focused improvements, we're giving the option to apply these latest terms instead.

FAQ improvements next, followed by pricing updates.

 

[GeoG]

Updated Service Plan Terms on the Service Plan Site now.

Hopefully this helps and makes things less ambiguous.

Obviously the original terms apply to already purchased plans (and are available to view in the service plans account tab), but for this revision since it's mostly just organizational changes and even some customer focused improvements, we're giving the option to apply these latest terms instead.

FAQ improvements next, followed by pricing updates.

I am like the sound of the fully custom replacement packs. Keep up the great work.

 

[byeLT4]

Would you offer support/info to those that have your service plan that have general questions about their battery health? I have an early 17 built P100D that isn't quite eligible yet for your service (checked earlier) and still has plenty of factory warranty although it acts funny to me and Tesla says is normal. I'd love to know your thoughts about what is really going on. Is there any end user info available to us that would be useful, like the apps that show pack voltage etc? Maybe even just a monthly emailed battery report? What you are doing is awesome enough, I feel like now I'm expecting too much LOL!!

 

[MP3Mike]

Is there any end user info available to us that would be useful, like the apps that show pack voltage etc? Maybe even just a monthly emailed battery report? What you are doing is awesome enough, I feel like now I'm expecting too much LOL!!

He said some information will be available:

Deciphered battery information will be on our service plan management page, along with historical data. "Raw" data perhaps not, since there's some things that we use in our communication with the pack that are... well, let's go with "trade secrets".

It will be interesting to see what all he makes available...

 

[wk057]

Would you offer support/info to those that have your service plan that have general questions about their battery health? I have an early 17 built P100D that isn't quite eligible yet for your service (checked earlier) and still has plenty of factory warranty although it acts funny to me and Tesla says is normal. I'd love to know your thoughts about what is really going on. Is there any end user info available to us that would be useful, like the apps that show pack voltage etc? Maybe even just a monthly emailed battery report? What you are doing is awesome enough, I feel like now I'm expecting too much LOL!!

The BMD dashboard on the website has the most up-to-date data about the battery pack available, including cell voltage, balance, capacity, etc etc, including historical data of the same.

This will also (eventually) be available in the smartphone BMD link app for the Bluetooth versions of the BMD.

Edit: I guess I didn't actually answer your initial question: Yes, we're happy to support customers with service plans pursuing battery issues with Tesla Service while still under Tesla's warranty.

 

[wk057]

Added this absolutely glorious cost comparison table.

 

[David_Cary]

Not to be a downer, but would anyone really pay WK057 $25k for a battery - the upper limit of the range? At that price, you would get a Tesla battery with a 4 year warranty.

And wouldn't the potential low end of transport costs be zero in all scenarios. The battery will fail - at least by your definition of fail - while still driveable. I think even Tesla declares the battery a total loss sometimes even if still driveable.

Your price for replacement seems mostly as high as Tesla and Tesla gives a 4 year warranty - which you would charge at least $4k for if you even offered 4 years. Or does your repair have an included warranty when done outside of service plan?

Don't get me wrong, I love the service plan option - just wondering about some of that chart.

Given there are reports of $11k for a reman battery from Tesla with 4 year warranty, that is only $2700 a year and that is if you have a failure. Obviously $11k is more than $4k but would only be justified if the failure rate was 30% or higher. Otherwise, rolling the dice seems reasonable.

Now your battery repair may give a much better battery than a Tesla reman but I hope you can see my logic.

 

[wk057]

Not to be a downer, but would anyone really pay WK057 $25k for a battery - the upper limit of the range? At that price, you would get a Tesla battery with a 4 year warranty.

It's happened. Salvage cars, particularly floods, have gone this route.

I have sent clean title folks back to Tesla (charging them nothing for the work to check things out, including pack removal and reinstall)... since yeah, I'm not going to tell anyone they have to do that when they have a better option.

That said, that's not super common. Realistically ends up towards the higher end of core value with us.

Wouldn't the potential low end of transport costs be zero in all scenarios. The battery will fail - at least by your definition of fail - while still driveable. I think even Tesla declares the battery a total loss sometimes even if still driveable.

Well, it's never really $0. Gonna cost you _something_... but yeah, potentially $0, but less likely in a full failure to be $0.

Your price for replacement seems mostly as high as Tesla and Tesla gives a 4 year warranty - which you would charge at least $4k for if you even offered 4 years. Or does your repair have an included warranty when done outside of service plan?

You've got the option to get a discounted service plan with a replacement now.

Again, our high end cost is super unlikely and I wouldn't expect anyone to go for it nor would I push that on anyone. If we can't do it cheaper than Tesla, I'll trailer your car from us to Charlotte Tesla for you.

Don't get me wrong, I love the service plan option - just wondering about some of that chart.

Given there are reports of $11k for a reman battery from Tesla with 4 year warranty, that is only $2700 a year and that is if you have a failure. Obviously $11k is more than $4k but would only be justified if the failure rate was 30% or higher. Otherwise, rolling the dice seems reasonable.

Now your battery repair may give a much better battery than a Tesla reman but I hope you can see my logic.

The low end options from Tesla are nearly non-existent. And if they are, I've seen a half-year wait for a reman 85 that was garbage. Tesla's higher end cost is most common (I have dozens of estimates customers have sent me).

Even if you factor in another 4 years of extended service, our service plan replacements at the worst case are _still_ cheaper than Tesla options on their low end... so I don't really get the issue.

 

[ChadFeldheimer]

Even if you factor in another 4 years of extended service, our service plan replacements at the worst case are _still_ cheaper than Tesla options on their low end... so I don't really get the issue.

Many thanks for bringing this service plan option to market.

The worst case from the customer standpoint is, of course, buying a service plan for 4 years and not needing it. What would you guess the probability of battery pack failure is in years 8-9 and 10-11?

60 packs are more prone to failure due to per cell loading - how about, say, P85D packs relative to 85? I have a P85D whose battery warranty is due to expire next year.

 

[dark cloud]

The worst case from the customer standpoint is, of course, buying a service plan for 4 years and not needing it.

No. For any insurance the whole point is to not need it. This is a warranty for your large value HV battery, but it is essentially insurance in the event of loss of that battery.

You don't get millions in 3rd party liability coverage with your auto insurance with the hopes it will get used.
You don't get house insurance with the hope your house will burn down.
And your life insurance: Is the worst case scenario not needing it?

You buy insurance or optional warranty's to protect assets, for piece of mind, in the unlikely possible event of loss of those assets, with the hope you don't use them.

 

[GeoG]

No. For any insurance the whole point is to not need it. This is a warranty for your large value HV battery, but it is essentially insurance in the event of loss of that battery.

You don't get millions in 3rd party liability coverage with your auto insurance with the hopes it will get used.
You don't get house insurance with the hope your house will burn down.
And your life insurance: Is the worst case scenario not needing it?

You buy insurance or optional warranty's to protect assets, for piece of mind, in the unlikely possible event of loss of those assets, with the hope you don't use them.

Very nicely explained.

 

[wk057]

The worst case from the customer standpoint is, of course, buying a service plan for 4 years and not needing it. What would you guess the probability of battery pack failure is in years 8-9 and 10-11?

This @dark cloud covered this well. (Thanks!)

No. For any insurance the whole point is to not need it. This is a warranty for your large value HV battery, but it is essentially insurance in the event of loss of that battery.

You don't get millions in 3rd party liability coverage with your auto insurance with the hopes it will get used.
You don't get house insurance with the hope your house will burn down.
And your life insurance: Is the worst case scenario not needing it?

You buy insurance or optional warranty's to protect assets, for piece of mind, in the unlikely possible event of loss of those assets, with the hope you don't use them.

60 packs are more prone to failure due to per cell loading - how about, say, P85D packs relative to 85? I have a P85D whose battery warranty is due to expire next year.

The 60 packs are continuously subjected to higher stress for normal use. The P85D and other performance variants only do so in small bursts, but normal use is still within acceptable ranges.

 

[FlatSix911]

Clarifying this:
Pricing for in-warranty folks will be more granular and increase every tick closer to expiration you get. Basically if you're in the "I'll wait until I get closer to X cutoff before signing up" we're killing that loophole entirely. You should signup now because it'll be more expensive than it would be otherwise (unless you're already in the 90-days-left window, then doesn't matter). Honestly, I didn't expect this to be needed, but when we've got dozens of people outright noting that they're just going to wait X months (and who knows how many more not telling us)... well, obviously our pricing structure is wrong.

Also, our promo for out-of-warranty folks is getting an automated per-minute decline towards a zero discount. Too many people asking when this is going away and basing decisions on their guesses on this. Bottom line is we can't disincentivize the purchase of our services over minor pricing stuff.

Thank you for the transparent pricing structure and explanation. Well done!